Out-of-Character Posts Thread

Here's a spot to ask OOC questions about IC information - particularly if it's long or you don't want to interrupt or clog up the IC thread, or practice post auto-formatting and roll macros, or to make OOC notifications to the group, carry out OOC conversations, etc.

Use liberally.

Just a test post to make sure I am really in correctly.

I don't see a way to see others' characters, is that by design? I definitely want to see everyones beliefs & instincts basically all the time. Also, I didn't notice these threads before I posted more to the "Interest" thread, but I had a proposed update to my beliefs:

- If the Guild can supply Greyhawk's taverns with good Dwarven Nog we'll be irreplaceable. I'll break the blockade of Chondite Keep and bring back the first shipment we've seen in seasons.

What do you think?

I might recommend this

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1y_TJcp3JyWmXXekuxZW4o5LSDg2MMVTHEkRPGVsRDbU/edit#gid=1

as an editable character sheet. We could keep them all in a shared google drive folder, so you could check in on beliefs and instincts and stuff.

Good point Epi, I've put up a thread for "character sheets", I can see your guys sheets at all times but I guess I didn't think about you all not seeing each others.

shughr, I couldn't access that link, submitted a request under the email linked to my GP account: defunctdiety @ g m a i l, I look forward to checking it out, I hadn't found a fillable crs yet.

I think I just approved it. Let me know if you still cant get access.

Good to go, thanks shughr, nice resource.

Wanted to give you guys a heads up Thursday nights are my IRL games meet-up night. So I will not be getting much done tonight. Apologies!

You added me to the game and thanks for that. I'd like to know what kind of participation you'd like from me, though. Do i need to make a character or just pay attention to the story and make one if needed?

I'd like you to make a character, if you would like to spend the time to do it.

Paying attention to the story isn't necessary, I think, unless you want to. If I need to bring you in, I'd definitely give you some advanced notice and fill you in on what has been and is going on.

Cool. I can burn up a character.

Must say, you guys have put together some awesome PCs. I'm excited...

Working on the story opening post. I will do my best to have it up tonight or Sunday night.

What's starting artha? Feels like a 1 Persona, 1-2 Fate opener to me. For that matter, how do artha awards work PbP? There's not really a nice end-of-session marker. Also an interesting thing reportedly happens when not using DoW, Fight!, or R&C: artha apparently has a tendency to pile up, especially Fate. Not sure we want to do anything about that unless it starts happening but something to keep in mind.

Hey, Epi thanks for those test rolls, I'd been meaning to try it out some. Looks like "re-rolling aces" does re-roll 6s, huh? As well as editing with the addition of a roll?

Regarding starting Artha, I had forgotten about that honestly. 1 and 2 sounds good to me. Pretty gritty, small-scale campaign.

As far as how we do "end of session" stuff, I figured I would just arbitrarily, basically, decide when the end of a chapter is based on things accomplished/attempted, but also with a mind toward pushing Artha rewards, as getting a sense of the nature of mechanical progression in BW is one of my personal goals for this experience.

An interesting insight RE: Artha expenditure in a Hub n Spokes game. I think unless it becomes a problem, I don't know that I want to do anything about it yet. Maybe everyone just keep it in mind, and making an effort to use it will be enough?

Hello all, I'm opening up the Chapter 1 IC Thread. shughr, please wrap up your Instincts soon so you can use them.

How much should we or shouldn't we take control of NPCs? For example, I just assumed that the lull would last long enough for a few sentences at least, rather than waiting to see if you called for a Conspicuous roll. And I assumed I could keep talking (to Messandier) after talking shit to Nicastro even though he might have cut me off. But I decided not to write anything about anyone else's active reactions.

In general, should we just post, or tell you OOC what we're doing before posting to see if it's okay?

And how shall we indicate intent to have engagement with mechanics versus just RP? For example in my first Nulgha post I'm kinda going for either "let's RP some" or if mechanics "intent: have a sizeable fraction of the folks here, like, I dunno, a third at least, afraid for the Guild if Nicastro leads; task: mention a superstition that would say he's a bad/unlucky omen" but I'm not sure whose responsibility it is to call for tests or whatnot.

Unless you have a substantial Relatuonship with the NPC, probably shouldn't assume much control. For your example, you would just post what you want to say and if Nicastro interrupts I could just say; Nicastro cuts you off halfway through your speech and says: ... And it's still good that I and the other players know where you were going with it. The other option would be, I'd be more fine with for example you saying the crowd becomes too raucous again for the remainder of your words to be heard. All that said, if you feel you have a good feel for the situation and/or the NPC, AND you use your agency to create drama (rather than direct advantage for your PC), then I will probably just roll with it, a and even appreciate the guidance on how you want or envision the story to go.

So, the short of it; just post with what you feel comfortable with.

If you're wondering if you are exceeding your "bounds" as a PC, try to find some other way to achieve what you were wanting to post/achieve but within your realm of "control". Like using the "OOC" format for your own narration or your PCs "Thoughts" format is a good way to do it; or, Hmm, I hope I have the time to get these words out before he stops me!, and the like.

RE: engaging the mechanics, if it's a situation where it's not obvious that the mechanics should be engaged, absolutely just conclude the post with an OOC aside; I will respond in a post to say "Ok! Roll it up!" Or, "Nah, you can just do it! There's nothing stopping you."

Then you can go edit the post, add a roll and I will edit my post (or others can chime in with parallel actions) with the in-game response so as not to build up little bits of posts of OOC banter.

Good questions, thanks Epi. Did that cover your concerns?

Yep, sounds good! At most conservatively specify NPC actions; preemptively think or \[occ]ask\[/occ] if I have a concern or think there might be a roll and retcon-edit if needed to clean up the thread once resolved.

m^2, planning to announce failure results before the roll in general? In this specific case (ear for voices)?

Yes, good point. So probably the best/most fluid way to do it will be - if you want to propose a roll, do so with your proposed task/intent and other modifiers included. Then I can say "ok, (insert negotiated obs here if applicable), and (insert failure condition here)." Does that cover it?

Sounds good. Stupid, traitorous dice have been rolled.

1. Is shughr here, checking the forums?
2. Is Niclas here, in the Cistern?
3. Where precisely is the Cistern, in particular is there an exit to a back alley or is it by the river? (spirits)

RE: shughr, I don't know. Haven't heard from him in several days.

Niclas is there at the Cistern, but as yet has just sat in the shadows, voiceless. Nulgha would not know whether he is there or not.

On the map I linked in the Player Resources thread, the Cistern is below the building marked with T1. It has many entry/exit points and yea, Id say it definitely has one of each.

Woah, excommunication! I am talking about rebelling against the acting guildmaster, but that seems a little harsh. If this were the start of a Duel of Wits, I'd say the stakes were too unbalanced, Nicastro's sounds like I lost without a compromise and mine sounds like I got a minor-medium compromise.

That said, I wasn't clear from your post what you were suggesting the roll be. Sounded like Nulgha's Ugly Truth with a Rhetoric FoRK and advantage from anger and disadvantage from Writ against Ob his Will, so that'd be 6D vs Ob 6? Combined with the stakes that sounds like the least favorable interpretation I can get, so I'm gonna lobby for a change. :D

Here are the four options that I see:

- I get way more upside than "he calls his own leadership skills into question", like maybe there's literally a vote of no confidence or equivalent.

- Ugly Truth test. Base Ob 4 "truth about a complex political situation", no advantage due to anger or disadvantage due to Writ because both are already baked into "complex". He outbursts, embarrassing himself and calling leadership into question, or he's fine and excommunicates me because those are the consequences of rebellion.

- Ugly Truth versus test. He wants to excommunicate me, he should roll for it. Oratory or Rule of Law or Command or something. Advantage for me due to anger, advantage for him (maybe +2D) due to the Writ.

- Ugly Truth against an Ob of his Will. Here he's just resisting the outburst. I'd have advantage and disadvantage from anger and the Writ. My failure means he is not fazed and people see it; in the story he may follow up with excommunication but that's a different Obstacle which I may be able to resist in some way (e.g. Writ-wise, Oratory, Sword, etc.)

I had interpreted the stakes for him already being basically embarrassment and a loss of faith amongst the Capos (not just himself), you won't get an actual vote out of an incident like this, it's just not a situation that would warrant it, but if the seed was planted with your first defiance, this would take the tree to budding in spring - so to speak.


As for your stakes, I mean Nicastro is basically the owner of the company, right now. What would happen if you said something so insubordinate to the owner of your company (or an employee said something like that to you if you're the owner), in front of your board of directors, when you have no workers rights to protect you?

How about, you succeed you get as above - embarrassment and loss of faith amongst the capos, he's too flustered to take retribution. You fail he still outbursts, embarrasses himself, causing a loss of faith amongst some of the capos, but obviously maintaining some respect and an air of command with the excommunication?

IMO, the only other option is you tone down your rhetoric to be less directly insubordinate.

Sounds good! I'm not toning it down, no way. :)

So to confirm: without artha, it's Ugly Truth, Rhetoric FoRK, +1D advantage against Ob Nicastro's Will, +1 Ob disadvantage?

Yeah, that sounds fine. What Artha are ya gonna put into it?

Persona of course. And failed: do your worst! :D

I leave you two alone for a few hours and look what happens. :D Cannot wait to see the outcome.

Ok, response posted!

If Fight! were in play I'd be tempted to Aura of Fear, lock him up, and leave on my terms, even with Power B3.

I think I'm really lucky Fight! is not in play.

Notes and questions:

I can in fact spirit bind without a tongue! The spirits do not talk, negotiate, etc., it's just a mind + force of will thing. So for example you can bind spirits to do something in the middle of Fight! even though you could only say a few words if you had to speak. It'd be at +3 Ob, but you could do it.

Superstition: Sounds like you're saying it would have been Superstition-wise Ob 4 (uncommon knowledge) to establish something like this as a fact, but instead you're saying Yes and that these thieves don't subscribe to it even if they know about it. Is that right?

Circles: Ob 3, okay. Affiliation with Thieves Guild still applies, I assume, though after this scene I suggest we drop the Affiliation down to 0 dice and add an infamous 1D reputation among people who were at this meeting. Is my Port Stonehold Reputation applicable? Breaking through war embargoes might be a reason to follow me out.

Enforcers: Eep! Time to run, for sure. My plan is to make a break for it after they start coming, and as soon as I'm up the stairs and into the alley, binding the spirit of a few of the stairs to Hinder the lead enforcer. That'd be Strength 2 to hinder +1 Ob, no penalty for specific medium, +1 Ob for here-and-now since I assume they're going to be testing Speed to chase me. Total Ob 3.

Summary, please confirm, is I roll Circles B2 plus 1D Affiliation Thieves Guild of Greyhawk plus (if applicable) 2D Reputation Shepherded Supplies through the Siege of Port Stonehold against Ob 3 to have someone follow me out, then Spirit Binding B5 versus Ob 3 to hinder.

The latter. Keep in mind you have business with Dwarves. I'm trying to keep things moving (which rolls slow it down and take up lots of attention) while not shutting down your PCs "thing".
I agree regarding TG Affiliation, and Infamous. And absolutely your Reputation applies.
I don't think you have a Domain that would allow you to bind a spirit in the sewer system's stairs (please let me know your thoughts on that, as I think we're all new to this parsing of Domains thing...), but you can do the door onto/off of the alley?

Any Retribution will be Enmity Clause (reckoned as appropriate based on test result), and beyond that if the test is failed the Enforcers will have you then and there, as there was nothing to slow them down and you don't have that much of a lead.

If you succeed they'll be Versus testing against the Alley Spirit holding the door shut? And you'll both make a Linked test, for the final "leg" of the escape.
The Circles Test is good to go.

Let me know your thoughts about the proposed summoning and chase after.

Hey all, wanted to give you a heads up: I have removed shughr as a Player from this campaign. I had PMed him and still not heard from him on any regard, even to say "Hey I'll be out for a bit." for over a week. I want a third leg to make our story stand up and Shark_Bone was more than happy to join our story.

Thanks for helping us out, S_B. Let me know if you have any questions about the campaign. Feel free to chime in on the IC thread if/when you feel comfortable with where the story is at, otherwise I'll find a place to bring you in explicitly soon...

Thanks Verrain and Epigone for your active participation thus far. I'm enjoying the crap out of it, and hope you guys are too, as early as we are in things.

Sorry to lose shugr but glad to have Shark_Bone on board.

As for my roll, my intention was to move while the crowd was distracted by Nulgha running off. Can I get +1D for the distraction?

Ah, disconnect. I thought the layout was alley, stairs down, door, bar-named-Cistern. If it's instead alley, door, stairs down, Cistern-no-really-it-is-a-sewer, then yeah I'll definitely be cutting upon hearing "Cease her!" and running upstairs and out the door, then binding the spirit of the door to hinder.
The way you've phrased it sounds like if I decline to spirit bind at all I get auto-captured?

I think Enmity Clause and auto-capture is double dipping the failure. Either just Hub & Spokes, Spirit Binding against an Ob of your choosing to escape or be captured; or Rim, Spirit Binding against Ob 3 to Hinder the lead enforcer, which is +1 Ob to the relevant physical test, and/or get retribution.

As I see it there are 4 legs here, 0-4 of which should be tested:
1. Do the enforcers capture Nulgha before she gets out the door? (Speed)
2. Does Nulgha bind the spirits of the door to Hinder? (Spirit Binding)
3. Does Nulgha escape the immediate chase of the enforcers in the alley? (Speed)
4. Is Nulgha able to hide somewhere so she isn't just quickly found? (Streetwise, Stealthy, or some -wise)

I think cutting my speech as soon as I hear "cease her!" should bypass #1, #2 should either [fully determine the escape intent without retribution like when you roll a Sorcery versus test for a wizard duel rather than casting a Rim spell] or [it should just determine whether there's hinderance and/or retribution], and your choice of #3 or #4 assuming we went with Rim for #2 (IMO #3 makes most sense)



Re: Observation, Messandier's help only gives a die if he has Observation opened (which he might, I dunno). 'course you can always say they have the advantage.



Welcome Shark Bone!

Failed the Circles test. Heh, now losing the affiliation die lines up 100% perfectly with the book's suggestions. :D

Edit: oops, no failure set out beforehand. Well, I rolled. m^2, take it away!

Oh, and Verrain, nice use of a Linked test to make it super clear Let it Ride is not in effect. I like it!

Thanks for the welcome! I'm stoked to play. BWG is a game i don't get to play very often, or, ever.

I'll give the IC thread a detailed read and then think about how i can insinuate myself into the action.

Also, what rating are we giving this game, as far as content goes?

Yep, my bad, however I did make an entry in the In-Character Resource thread describing the Guild HQ in more detail a day or two ago.
Not so. Binding a Spirit takes time yea? Never saw an official Action count in the book, but w/ Hub n Spokes I don't know that it really matters anyway.

So, you fled the Cistern with ~10m lead on the closest Enforcer (which is ~ 1/2 the length of that room) - there were a couple by Nicastro and a couple others about the room. That's gonna be like 2 seconds at a run. I thought I was being generous giving you a chance to summon at all.

So, when you stop at the top of the stairs/in the alley to summon the spirit they're running the whole time you're summoning, which means you complete the binding/it manifests and Hinders a literal split second before they get to the door. So if you fail to summon, they're at the door (and through it unimpeded), you're just on the other side of that door turning to run. Which = you're caught - they're already/still moving, there's three of them, and I want to keep things moving and the others involved.

If you want to summon while continuing to move, that's gonna be a Disadvantage to the check.

You successfully summon, they have to stop and try to push through the door, while you have more time to flee. It get's you to your "lose them" move. Whether that's just run and run, or hide, or whatever.

If you just want to just leg it - no summoning, you never have to stop, so we'll do a Linked test, Speed Vs. (to achieve enough separation), and whatever your chosen method of trying to lose them is.
Retribution is failure for the test, being captured is just how the stories gonna go if you're stopping while they continue to charge headlong at you, and you fail to Hinder them. They're on you. It's over.

EDIT: also, Retribution is an analogue to a Tax, it's a part of using the attribute, no? Greater Failure conditions/consequences are totally fair game, no?
Messandier's a she (as is Marlent), and they both have Observation. I don't know what Master Thief worth their salt would not.

Good question, we haven't really discussed this. I'm fine with mature language and themes but up to this point I'd say we've kept it pretty PG13.

Am I correct in remembering we got 2 Fate and 1 Persona Artha as starting?

I like mature themes and content. But I don't want to go farther than the group is comfortable with, as a whole. I'll keep it at PG-13 until everyone has a chance to chime in and we make a final decision.

Cistern = Guild Hall: got it, I saw the Guild Hall description, and knew we were in something named the Cistern, but didn't put it together that they were literally the same place. Cool.
Okay, cool. Spirit Binding it is, then, success I get to try to flee, failure I am captured. What's the Ob? (that Ob 3 was just the lowest Ob possible if I wanted to give one person +1 Ob to an immediate test, using the Rim...). For brevity I'll go ahead and roll 5D open ended and separately 1D open ended. If I hit the Ob, ignore the 1D, if I don't, that's me spending a Fate.

(For the record, the reason I thought things were different was originally I was still for ~1.5 sentences after Nicastro said "Cease her!" and then was just walking to the door and the enforcers were going to catch me as I was framed in the doorway, so instead I stopped talking and sprinted, and Spirit Binding takes 1 Action in Fight! while you're assumed to still be moving around. But I agree we need to wrap this up.)
Nope, you either use the skill just as a skill or you invoke the more detailed mechanics from the Rim, not both. Example, say you're a wizard and you want to flee someone by casting Horse's Stride. The options are:
a) Sorcery versus Speed or similar. Success is you flee, failure is GM's option as per a normal versus test like Speed versus Speed.
b) Sorcery against Ob 3. Success is you get stride 12. Failure is you don't cast and you roll a die of Fate for Unwanted Summoning or Garbled Transmission. Either way you are taxed and get your Forte dice to resist. Afterwards, make a versus Speed test and you probably get +2D advantage if you succeeded in casting Horse's Stride.

The Spirit Binding analogue of tax is retribution. You are subject to retribution even on success. You get to resist with any extra successes on the original test. Failure is you don't get help and are subject to even more retribution.
Can you update the Knowledge thread with genders? Thanks :)

I mentioned the Observation thing because it's actually really rare in lifepaths. I don't think any of the canonical thief-y lifepaths in City or Outcast have Observation, it's usually for scouts, trackers, etc. It's a fine use of general skills though.

Shark Bone, good question. I am fine with mature themes and content.

Oh, and assuming I succeed the spirit binding test, my intent will be to get away from any immediate enforcer threat. Task depends on what time it is! If it's more like evening, Nulgha will run through back alleys to lose them and hole up somewhere, definitely not her house. If it's more like afternoon Nulgha will run to some crowded area near the river with plenty of exits like a bustling loading area, lose them in the crowd, then take the back way to somewhere not her house to hole up.

I was thinking test Speed, City-wise, Back Alley-wise, Thieves Quarter-wise, or Inconspicuous versus the three enforcers (or lots of they're all after me).

Are the enforcers at the only for into this place? I'm thinking about having zachary rush in after that chase is gone, yelling about how he just heard the bad news, what's everyone doing about it. Sound ok?

Hey all, busy day. Didn't have time to reply until now.

Shark_Bone, there are multiple ways into and out of the Cistern/Guild Hall, you can have that be your entrance.

It's night, so after I post a response to Gord (and you), we can wrap up the final check. If you're just straight legging it, we'll do Speed Versus, Linked from previous check. So you get a +1 Advantage since you succeeded your binding, and the results of the Enforcer(s) Power Versus Spirit will be their Linking test (if they succeed against the Spirit that is, if not, you're gone).

Your Spirit is Power 2 right? So with Hindrance, it'll be the results of a 2d6 roll, +1 Obs for the Enforcers?

EDIT: Traitorous dice! :P So long as your spirit can manage 1 success, you're away Scot free.

It was surprisingly hard to find a good image of a thief-y woman with red eyes, and I do not have Photoshop opened. So I just chose one red eye as Nulgha's avatar.

Hey all, we had to move our weekly game to Tuesday this week so I may not be able to be too active.

A note, m^2, if you have or haven't already determined the answer, these are often good times to ask why we want to know, turn it into an intent, call for a -wise test. e.g. this page on -wises, including what appears to be a quote from our own Verrain:

Good advice, I'll try to keep that in mind!

That is from one of my old posts. I didn't know they put it on the wiki. Glad to see the advice is still useful. :)

Them's fightin' words. ...good plan not saying them to Nicastro's face, maybe Gord should instruct Nulgha in Strategy... :D

Hey guys, just curious. I used the "Note" tool for Shark_Bone (the icon above the reply box that looks like a piece of paper w/ a red gradient and the top right corner folded over), and I was just wondering what it looks like to you all? Haven't used it before.

Do you guys see anything after Messandier sweeping her arm toward a chair?

Just that, as a separate post.

FWIW, I'd rather not receive secrets without a super good reason, instead letting Verrain and SB do the dramatic irony thing. I am also completely okay with others receiving secrets.

Thanks, Epi. And yea, I realize BW is a system meant to be played open-handed. But admittedly part of me just wanted to explore the functionality. I don't plan on making a habit of it, but you guys did say you wanted intrigue... :D

Not established, but I would imagine Nulgha is with Capo Porton of the River Quarter and that's where her house is too. She does not own a ship (those are expensive!) but contracts with ship owners to smuggle, providing navigation, weather prediction, spirit aid, and usually also contacts and hookup with illegal goods. A facilitator. When not in major business, she provides minor weather prediction and spirit aid services along the river within the city.

Yea, I was never impressed with the choices for ships. It goes from a like 30' single mast ship for 30 RPs, to like a 90' 3 mast ship for 60? Ok...

If I were to be a part of a more sailing focused campaign, I'd want a little more resolution.

Like what? Stories of past smugglings ended up as my Reputation, contacts are Circles, successfulness is Resources, a good example of my previous activity shows up in my Belief, my nuts and bolts sailing experience is reflected in my utter lack of sailing related skills except Navigation... :D

Happy to provide more if you want, just let me know about what.

As far as gang membership, I thought we were all part of the same gang. Is that not the case?

You misunderstand, I'm talking about ship choices. So when I say I'd "want more resolution" I mean I'd want to work out more ship choices along a more gradual RP cost spectrum.
You're not. At least the original three were not. It was proposed, but it just didn't work out that way.

You could choose to be with either Gord or Nulghas, if you wanted. You'd fit well enough as a fence.

But basically here's the structure of the Thieves Guild:

Originally in ye olde days, Greyhawk had 100 different criminal gangs and families, doing 100 different private/separate "businesses", thieving from each other, killing each other, and generally just being a big drain on each other as they warred over turf and business. Well, some 100 years ago this guy comes along and uses murder, bribery and any and all other coercions and persuasions imaginable to unite those 100 gangs under 1 banner - the Thieves Guild, so that they could all operate more efficiently and peacefully and therefore prosper more, together. This is "the Old Alliance", structured around "the Writ". The laws of the Thieves Guild.

As a part of the Old Alliance, the main gangs/families of each District got to retain their identity, and absorbed the lesser ones therein. Each district has 1 manager (a Capo), overseeing all of its various operations, whom is directly responsible to the Guld Master, pays her/him dues and generally maintains the order amongst his thieves, trains them, recruits, deals with "non-Member" thieves and operations in his District, etc.

Some Capos/Districts allowed many of the gangs under them to maintain their identities, as well, and they maintain some form of "middle management", some Capos did not. It's however that Capo wants to structure his organization as long as it works.

You guys are somewhere in that "middle management" area. And in the character burning process it just kind of became apparent that everyone was just doing their own thing.

You can decide where you sit tho still, Shark.

Yeah i think I'd like to have a connection to another PC. That'll give us another reason to work together and stick close to each other during this situation. I think, as a money lender (loan shark) i can probably fit in anywhere.

That was why I was trying so hard to get shughr to have Beliefs that tied him into the others/the main conflict.

You can choose where you set up shop (which doesn't have to be where you live), so yea which one do you want? Your choice: under Capo Porton in the River Quarter? Or under Capo Nenshen in the Slum Quarter?

And where is your house?

I think I'll be in the River quarter. That's where my house is and I operate out of it. My original thought was that the house is my own, bought with my ill-gotten gains and completely separate from the properties my family maintains. So, when I'm concentrating on guild business, I'm at my house in the river quarter. On the rare times I have to go and be a good little noble, I'm spending time at my family properties. I would love for you to create some pressures between my thief life and my noble life, if you can work it in.

The fences (and smugglers and whoremongers and gambling houses, etc. etc.) do have a lesser type of organization (lesser than say a Capo's organization or even a directly subsidiary gang) which they coordinate rates and things through, but it's less binding and of lesser importance w/i the Guild than a gang-level organization.
Sounds good to me, S_B. And I will absolutely be finding ways to entangle your Relationships with the other plots.

Super OOC: Finally had our first session of my meatspace game yesterday, went pretty well, but I'm gonna have to change up my standard GM practices with 5 players, that's a ton of Beliefs to juggle. Spirit Binder didn't pull anything too crazy, just a helping die here and there and one Reveal To Me. I think he was scared of Retribution. :D

Awesome. I'd love to get my group into BWG, but the one time i got to run it for them, they wanted a tour of the system and it didn't go well because none of us had the Hub and Spokes down.
I look forward to it!

I tried to do a campaign burning session with my table once, with the thought that I could flesh out the setting once we had the main points down while we rotated through a couple other GMs turns. But I did it with basically just a 15 minute speech on the basics of the system, no one had read any part of anything, and it just didn't work. What they came up with would have been a great Pathfinder campaign or something, but I felt like it just missed the mark when it came to BW... or maybe I just didn't have a good enough grasp on the system to see how it could work. It was very adventure oriented and I wanted to do the more dramatic, character driven thing...

Was really discouraging, and then as I read through the hub n spokes again, and started on the rim, and now have the Codex, more and more I couldn't imagine trying to run it for our normal 5-6... I've been slowly trying to get a couple of guys to read the Hub n Spokes, and poke around on Charred, but not much doin' yet.

Moral of the story is, I am very excited to be having the most successful PbP I've ever participated in here w/ you guys using BWG.

I love the Sword as an intro scenario. Tell everyone it's explicitly more PvP than normal in the interest of having rules come up, muscle in a DoW and Fight! and again hang a lampshade on the fact that the situation isn't quite ideal (if it's not) by saying it's to demonstrate rules... You get easy forgiveness for some rules awkwardness and players tend to take the scenario in the direction they like.

Even if BW starts as a dungeon delve, because of beliefs it has a great chance of morphing into character drama.

Glad you're excited! I'm very interested to find out if Nulgha is/becomes a hero or a villain. :D

I'm super stressed and worn out today from work. I was planning on posting today, but I'm going to take some time to relax and recover. Thanks.

Thanks for the heads up, S_B!

Turned into two days, sorry. Turns out i was sick, not stressed.

No problem yesterday was my IRL gamenight, so I wasn't around to respond to anything anyway.

Epigone has seen that note, Nulgha has not, and it's cryptic enough that I will almost certainly forget what it said if it's edited out and shared secretly.

Meta: here's my at least one post per day ;)

Less meta: Nulgha will want to do the following in the next few days, assuming the situation with Nicastro remains unchanged: meet up with Tomas in secret, watch her house to see if anyone is watching her house, meet up with Zachary as a fellow River Quarter thief who she thinks didn't attend the meeting, and meet up with her Capo who she's guessing is just fine with her right now. Feel free to frame me into any of that, or whatever, of course.

While I want to minimize temporal disparities from when IC posts are made/occur, and where the present conversation is, I think there are a couple things we could proceed with for you Epi. Pretty much any of your "to dos" except the meet with Zachary I'd say?

BTW, just looked up how helping on Beginner's Luck tests works, 'cause I never really understood it. For good reason, it seems! Here's the ruling as I understand it now. In brief, think of Beginner's Luck as an obstacle penalty to a stat test which does not factor into anyone's advancement, like artha doesn't.

Concrete example:

Suppose Zachary is going to make a Beginner's Luck -wise test, and Gord is helping. They both have B4 Perception. Let's say the Ob is 2, and Zachary has a +1 Ob disadvantage because, I dunno, he's drunk.

Zachary rolls Beginner's Luck Perception B4+1D=5D against a total Ob of 5. Base Ob doubled, plus disadvantage, is 2*2+1=5.

Zachary's test will be logged as if he rolled 5D against an Ob of 3, base Ob plus disadvantage, 2+1=3. That test would be routine for the stat, so instead it counts as a test toward opening the -wise.

Gord's test will be logged as if he rolled 4D against an Ob of 3 as well. That test would be difficult for the stat, so it counts as a Difficult Perception test.

I treated his previous -wise check (and will be doing the same with this one) as a Graduated Test. Does it just count as whatever Obs you hit then?

Nah, graduated are just base Ob 0. Always routine unless you have lots of +Ob penalties. The margin of success is what tells you how much info you get from the GM.

Not a bad roll for me! I imagine Gord and Zachary are now chatting about Chondite Keep for the roll.

I choose to believe the 6 was rolled on my die. :)

Maybe we should put help dice in a separate roll so we can see!

IIRC one of the conditions for help in the RAW is that the player physically hand over dice to the other player... I'm definitely putting help dice in separate rolls starting now. :D

Oh, but you're right that this doesn't work for margin of success. I started a thread on the BW forums about that, no traction yet. In general MoS counts like base Ob in that you have to achieve two successes for each extra MoS.

So for Zachary's Beginner's Luck Graduated test, with 3 successes on the dice, gets margin of success = 1, and should be exactly the same outcome as a real City of Greyhawk-wise test with 1 success.

I don't think there should be any distinction between what a Beginner's Luck test can achieve and what rolling the skill can achieve, it's just much harder to get a large margin of success on Beginner's Luck. The only examples I know where there's an actual difference are called out explicitly - Martial Arts as an opened skill lets you pick some new maneuvers in Fight!, I believe, and you can't roll Sorcery with Beginner's Luck until someone has taught you your first test.

Knowledge about the City of Greyhawk is not going to yield anything about the weaknesses of a military fortification.

Definitely. That'd need to be a beginner's luck Chondite Keep-wise test or similar, right?

So I "learned" that the keep is completely separate from the city. That's something I didn't know before.

Heh, well if that's all you took as useful information, then I guess that's all you "learned".

My tests are up to date on my character sheet. Just two beginners luck tests. Did i understand correctly that you're going to end this "session" already?

Just wanted to remind everyone I have my irl game tonight. Won't be able to respond to IC til tomorrow.
Possibly, after another day or so in-game.

Whew. I was expecting Zachary to offer Gord a bit o' cash to drop the whole Nog/Weed business...

Zachary knows that the only currency that really means anything are favors. Growing up rich has skewed his perception that way, anyway.

Haha, looks like Nulgha is more rattled than I thought. What is she thinking, just blurting out all that about the Old Alliance... :D

Nobles hate the Thieves Guild and hate how much Heimart suffers them? Sounds promising... Here goes nothin'. I want to say specifically that Lord Heimart fears the dissolution of the Old Alliance because riots chaos etc. Nulgha would get this idea from a) knowing the character of Tomas and hearing stories Tomas has told of his father, b) rumors in the Guild, and c) getting that feeling from the fears and superstitions of those she talks with in the city. What -wise, what Ob, what failure result, and can I get an advantage for having heard unguarded stories from Tomas? (My intuition says Heimart-wise Ob 2-3, City of Greyhawk-wise Ob 3-4, or Superstition-wise Ob 5-6. Let me know if my idea of these Obs is fairly close to yours or wildly off-base just for being-in-sync purposes?)

You can't established that Lord Heimart fears the dissolution of the Old Alliance with a -wise check. There is logic and reason/story/plot that would lead him to feel however he does about it. It's already established.

If you want him to fear it (if he doesn't already), you will have to take tangible action to make him feel that way. You can make a Persuasion test to convince Tomas to fear it now. You can make a -wise check to try and reason out how Lord H might feel. Or attempt to gather information in some way to find out concretely how Lord H feels.

Oh! Okay, thought it was undetermined. No -wise then, we'll see what we see! Knowing how he feels makes no difference in which actions Nulgha will take to try to talk with him, no need to find out if she's guessed right beforehand. I'm gonna go with "she thinks he's scared but obviously can't admit that publicly" and see what happens.

As for Tomas, I don't want Nulgha to try to convince him it's in his best interest to be afraid, so definitely no Persuasion for that.

Ooh, unskilled Disguise, one of my favorite tests. ;)

I've got a B2! Not great... but no double Ob penalty. :D

Oh yeah I guess you can disguise Gord... Nice! Right skill right time...?

Sorry guys, don't think I can manage IC posts today... to f-ing stressed about the U.S. election.

My wife is holding me to a strict "only talk about it once per hour". I am drinking. :( :(

No worries. It's got me and mine pretty bad too.

And i think we'll have to see how the disguise pans out before calling right skill right time. :)

Sorry again for the absence all. The election hit my family pretty hard, have some in-laws that are members of a demographic that one might consider at risk depending on exactly how Trumps policies go... Been focusing on the family a bit. But I'm back!

Sorry to see that. It was definitely a rough week.

On the upside, I did get to do some excellent Q&A sessions for AetherCon this morning! Being "on" for three hours straight took a lot out of me though. XD

Re: Persuasion test.
1. Failure consequences?
2. Will Tomas help? With 1D or 2D?

1. To convince him to let-up, outright, through these letters will be pretty dang hard. Im thinking like a 6 Obs? He has an absolute need for a scapegoat right now that would require some expert persuasion to discount, and there are also behind the scenes circumstances that would present a Disadvantage for you. Failure condition would be he isn't convinced, but would have a seed of doubt planted, and would also take them directly to Nicastro.

2. Can you propose something for Tomas to do that can Help with the test? He's not really a written prose kind of guy so I don't think he'd have an applicable Skill, and he doesn't know anything about the situation that you haven't told him, and so is kind of just a different set of handwriting to mask the ruse should it have to hold up to some technical scrutiny, right? As well as of course getting the letters directly to Heimart.

Cool. Is it base Ob 5 with +1 Ob disadvantage, or base Ob 4 with +2 Ob disadvantage? (Matters since this is Beginner's Luck)

Tomas and Nulgha have been talking about the contents of the letters and he will be delivering them. Seems like helping with Persuasion, Falsehood, Forgery, or a -wise like Scheme-wise or City-wise are all plausible candidates. Since I will be rolling Beginner's Luck, he can also help with a base stat if he doesn't have them.

Do either of rich paper or the Thieves Guild will in fact have some shake ups due to Maestro being gone translate to advantage?

Obs 5 was my initial conception of it.

Yeah, he would have an applicable -wise I suppose, just by knowing his father - how he thinks, what pushes his buttons...

No Advantage based on that stuff I think, that's the persuasion itself, voicing it convincingly.

You could try a slightly less ambitious Intent, if an 11 Obs seems a little steep :P

I'm a student of Mouse Guard sometimes even when I shouldn't be... I know "no weasels" isn't a BWG rule but it's kinda how I like to play games in general. :)

Rolls are up in the post, not good enough to Hail Mary Fate, so failure.

Still need to know whether Tomas is helping with 1 or 2 dice for advancement purposes - it's a challenging Will test if he handed over 1D or a difficult Will test if he handed over 2D.

Never played Mouse Guard, always been intrigued by the setting and "BW-lite"ness of it. But if I can't even get a game of BW going IRL, I don't even want to think about MG...

1 Help die from Tomas.

As much as I'm loving this game, I'm going to have to drop it. I've got a lot of things demanding my attention and it's driving me all over the place and I need to trim some of the things away. I apologize and thanks for letting me join for awhile.

Sad cat! Thanks for letting us know, SB.

Ok, see ya around S_B.

Bye. S-B. Well that knocks the wind out of my sails. I really don't know where to go from here.

Well, it's like he asked; what were you gonna do before he came along?

Or, we can shift focus to another one of your Beliefs.

Sorry, was super busy for a few days. I'm back though. I work in one of the layers enabling ecommerce so now and just before Christmas are the most hectic.

Hey guys, have an interested party that may want to join in. Between that and travel/holiday/travel, may not be moving too fast in the IC thread for the next couple days.

Holiday scramble is mostly done now. m^2, how do you want to handle spirit binding going forwards? Should I treat it just like any other skill, you'll declare the Ob when it's the appropriate task for an intent, etc.? Or should I use the full rules from the Codex, choosing my Spirit Strength, medium, etc?

'cause Nulgha's about to make a nighttime expedition to the Docks.

Hello gents, so the guy who expressed interest in the game has gone to radio silence. I was hoping to get someone on the docket or at least in the works before moving ahead but doesn't look like that's gonna pan out so smoothly.

Epi, we'll use the full rules for spirit binding.

OK, Em, I'm wanting to do the Circles check to find someone with information useful to breaking into the compound. What is the OB and do I get helping dice from Carlod?

Couple of things Gord would know that you may want to consider before proceeding; anyone else brought in is going to expect/ask for their own cut - and it won't be taken out of the Royal Green's portion, anyone Carlod knows is most likely a Royal Green, Carlod may have some knowledge of the residences of the District himself.

A: You've already stated that anyone Gord brings in comes out of his cut. That is understood.

B: I would hope that Carlod is not so insular as to know only thieves. Servants, tradesman, workman, etc. would all have knowledge of the compound useful for a break-in.

C: If you want me to talk to Carlod, that's fine. I'll do that first.

A, ok.

B, I gotchya now. Wasn't thinking from that angle.

C, I understand (and share) your frustration with the rug getting yanked out from under the previous doings, but I would still like the game to stay in character as much as possible. So it's not that I want you to talk to Carlod, I want you to take me up to the point of your task and intent IC, so I can have a frame of reference for proceeding with the rolls.

As long as the responses are speedy, I have no problem with the Roleplay. My main concern at this point is Nulgha being so far ahead in time compared to Gord so I was hoping to move things along on my end.

I'm waiting for you. :) I believe the current state is just "Nulgha slept the rest of the day" and "Gord is doing things during the day"?

Hey Verrain, just wanted to make sure you knew the ball is in your court on the IC forum.

If interest is flagging or your busy or whatever, not a problem, just wondering.