General Chat

A place for general chatting, about the game or other topics.

Outsiders can also post to this thread (so long as the game remains Public).

@Owlbeer: If you need help with site related details like creating a character sheet or submitting it to the game, don't hesitate to ask. I, or someone else in the game, will be more than happy to help you with that sort of thing. (Or anything else, or anyone else, of course.:)

Thanks for the invitation. I am sure there are still things to learn. But in my other game I just got on, it wasn't too hard to set up a character. This site is quite well designed.

I have changed the game name from Star Wars - Order 66 Survivors to Star Wars: Order 66 Survivors to keep with the Star Wars way of naming. Just in case this affects anyone.

I also welcome another name if anyone has one that works better. (I Survived Order 66 (and all I got was this lousy tee-shirt.) ... is more a t-shirt than a game name. (I don't recommend you wear that shirt...) :)

Nice t-shirt 😂

Kkkkkk

Gonna need a few days... pulled a tendon in my wrist and typing's a beach.

Almost sounded like you pulled a tendon typing! :)

Hopefully you recover soon. We will continue on, and assume you are following along with the others. You can add anything that your character would have done in the missed time when you are back.

Let us know if something happens that you would need to respond to and we need to wait, else we will keep going. Not too much should happen in 'a few days' in PbP.

Rest up and get well.

Wrist is getting better... slower than I expected... If all goes well I should be back in business by Friday.

Tendons are slow things to heal.

I've been keeping the heat to it and am wearing a wrist brace most of the time... It's feeling like its back to 90%... just being cautious as there's always the risk of re aggravating it.

I would applaud your dedication... but I don't want to suggest I would 'give you a hand'... :)

Seriously, taking the time to properly heal is such a hard skill to learn, getting to 90% and then re-injuring and having to start recovery all over again is such a common trope.

I was just doing some postings to get caught up in a bunch of games but realize I have a lot of reading to do to catch up in this game and its already late. My wrist is feeling good now so I will get my next post out tomorrow morning.

Great news!

That is good to hear. I wore a wrist guard for years after busting my wrist doing capoera

I started putting together a thread for chatting about how we roll dice, I had over 700 words written, but am finding it 'needless'. I can post my thoughts and 'simulations' if we really want.

But it boils down to:

If a situation is both risky and failure is interesting: Decide how hard it is to achieve our goal, decide what story factors come into play to adjust that difficulty, set a final difficulty from 1 to 5 and roll higher than that on a d6.

So:
"This is hard, 'roll better than 5'." (1 in 6 chance of 'success')
"This is easy, 'roll better than 1'." (1 in 6 chance of 'failure)

We don't roll when we don't have to.

We can easily change this simple rule later.

sounds good

Well done! :)

This way?

Special color coding would call for special dice rules, we can add that if we really want. But this should not be the focus of the game.

We can mention the 'DC' or 'TN' or whatever we want to call it in the Reason field, but more important is to put the reason for the roll in that field so we know what the roll is for. We will settle on something that works for us as we play.

Totally agree. I was actually trying to test with the > and DC. I added all those rolls because of what you mentioned in the (now deleted) post you did using ">" in the dice

I saw that =)

A wise GM [ref] once told me: "people have read it" = "as soon as you have posted." =))

"I did that on purpose... um ... to illustrate the point... yeah... um ... whoops."

[quote="Balthazar"]... a lot of reading to do to catch up in this game ...[quote]

Let us know if you need a summary to catch you up.

(Despite being 3 pages of RP, a summary should be quick (this is always the case, summarising 'in our previous session' (which was 5 hours!) takes 30 seconds if there are no 'ums and ers':).)

In big games/treads, I have started to use google notebook LM to read through everything, and give me a summary
If the game is private, then I'll show all treads (click X of X) and copy/paste everything to a text file and upload that into notebook

No thank you. LLMs get it wrong too often for me to rely on them to summarise things, even though 'summarise' is one area where they are strong.

The act of writing a summary is immensely useful. As the saying goes: "If you want to really learn a subject, teach it." Or: "If you can't teach (summarise) it, you don't really know it."

I received a PM from @Balthazar, they are stepping out of a few games due to time constraints.

We are sorry to see them go and wish them well. I think their hand is doing OK.

We can say Ka'el chose to go their own way when you entered the vents, and you don't need to worry about them.

I like my fellow players.
I like our characters.
I like the general plot we are on to.

But I'm not happy with this very loss system we are using. I thought I would, but I miss the constraints, whom within could express my character without the worry of overstepping.

What do you feel about our game so far?

This is true. Constraints force creativity. There is the constant worry about overstepping, but that should not be much different from other games, but the bigger downside can be the lack of apparent stakes and lack of defined limits.

FKR relies a lot on trusting the GM to keep things 'balanced', like, for instance, recently, you found a ship that is 'well suited to your needs' which could be considered a possible 'overstep' or 'easy solution', so I added booby-traps, limited features, and unknowns, as a counter; I thought about being explicit and spelling that out (I prefer to be open about what the GM is doing), but some expressed a lack of desire to talk about 'mechanics' (though these are mainly expressed in the fiction). We can find the right level.

Before that, finding the vents and escaping 'so easily' felt a little anti-climactic, but I was letting the players direct what scope and scale of difficulties they wanted to see, and it seemed there was a desire to get it done without rolling, all rolling there would have done would be to slow down your getting to the hangar and a ship and forcing an almost-inevitable confrontation with the clones (an NPC mouthpiece did express worry about ignoring the clones and what they were doing to the innocents of the station, as both a reminder and and opportunity to 'do the right thing' but the risks were deemed too high (the players did not take the potential-plot-point, there a always many, and only the plots the players engage with stick around)). Rolling to see if a tech specialist could 'do a tech thing' (overriding the pod launch controls) seemed boring enough and the player added their own cost, which can now be a possible risk when we do need to roll, or another obstacle that needs to be overcome going forward.

• If we want more mechanical intrusion, we can do that.
• If we all want to define and limit the characters a bit more, so as to provide boundaries we can push against, we can do that too.

Let me know. We can introduce a light and flexible 'system'.

Myself, I came to experience FKR, not a rules light home-brew. I'm happy to make more problems for myself that force rolls, but I know that some players find that annoying, especially when my problems become their problems too!

I'm open to what the group wants. I know @vagueGM said that FKR relies on a lot of trust in the GM, but it seems to me that it also relies on a lot of trust in the other players, as well as a shared vision of what it is we are doing here.

So what do I want? I would like to tell a story in this world with these characters. I want us to choose challenges that are interesting but possibly dangerous. I want to see what happens when we fail and when we succeed. I want to be surprised by other players' narrative choices; I want to be challenged by the GM's rulings. You know, the usual! :)

I would like to know more. What constraints are you missing, so we can put them back? =)

I liked the rule about refueling the ship.[ref] I don't think I would like generic dice rules, though, that apply to all risky situations. Not in this game, specifically. The lack of general rules for risky situations is what I am looking for in this game.
+1. I'm not against limits and boundaries for our narrative choices. If we all decide that a player can write and describe this and that, but only the GM (or the dice) can say if it's X or Y... whatever boundaries we need... That's fine by me =)

I am thinking on an answer for you, and if I find it I will tell you :)

There are those who excels in the freeform, but I never really got it and I might be to set in my ways to change.
If I cant find a way to have fun within the FRK, then I think I should step out of this game

This is always a risk in these situations. If one joins a game of DnD (?e), or Vampire, or Savage World, or Masks, one has a pretty good idea of what one is in for. A term like 'Fate' or 'PbtA' is much less useful and we have to rely on the specific game to judge (Dresden or Bulldogs), but we do have a rulebook we can look at to get a feel for what we might see in the game.

'FKR' means different things to different people. The only real through-line is that it cares more about the story than about the rules, that players should be thinking about story first and only think about mechanics as an afterthought. This does not mean that it can't have a strong ruleset, or strongly defined characters and sheets, just that they should not be the primary lens we look at the game through. FKR is a mindset not a ruleset. But I do get that, as soon as we have a sheet with things our character can do, we can devolve to 'looking at the sheet for what to do'.

It seems most of this group would prefer to keep it as freeform as possible. @owlbeer, what are your thoughts on this?

I am not wanting this to be a 'story game', or 'shared storytelling experience', this is still an RPG, but I think we are still (even if just barely) in RPG territory due our 'resolution mechanics'. The characters are a little freeform and ended a little more 'chosen one' than I intended, but nothing egregious or that we can not address in play. A little more structure during character creation may have been a benefit, but that draws the focus to that structure.

@runekyndig I would hate to lose Voss, you have made a very interesting character whose story I would like to see. What do you think it would take to make you more comfortable? Perhaps we can accommodate you while not spoiling it for the others. If you decide to leave, don't feel bad, this bleeding edge of 'freeform' won't work for everybody.

The last thing I want to do is to disrupt this game and story. And Voss'es story is definitely one that I want to explore -
But, in a more structured game system. And as another star wars game is dawning, I am going to withdraw from this game.

I apologise for the disruption this may cause.

No problem. I hope your FFG game gives you what you want.

I am happy to keep this going with 3 players. Let's see what's up with Owlbeer if/when they return, if we are down to 2 players we can talk about recruiting more, but I don't want to disrupt things more.

Hi Drgwen and vagueGM,

I wanted to let you all know that I’ve decided to withdraw from the game. This experience has been a fascinating experiment for me with FKR-style play, and I truly appreciate the creativity and story that have come out of it. That said, I’ve realized that the open-ended, sandbox nature of this style doesn’t quite suit me. I find myself missing a clearer plot and a bit more structure and constraints.

I fully appreciate the strengths of this style, and as a GM myself, I truly value proactive and engaged players. However, as a player, I’ve come to realize that sometimes I need to take a bit more of a backseat role and read a cohesive story unfold. When everyone has complete freedom to do anything, it can feel overwhelming and somewhat disconnected for me. I didn’t anticipate feeling this way, but it’s been a meaningful insight.

Anyway, thank you all for the experience, and I wish you the best moving forward. =)

See you in other games!

No worries. It was good to have you.
That's understandable, this is not exactly a failing of FKR, a lot of this is down to my (some say 'overly') collaborative style of GMing. We need to play with people to get to know these things. :)
Yeah, even for FKR this was a little wishy-washy. The group decided that they did not want a rules-structure, or to talk about character sheet numbers and dice. This is not a feature of FKR, this was a group decision, don't judge FKR by this.
I know the feeling. I have joined sites with the express intent of not GMing and not taking a proactive role, just to take a backseat and enjoy the story. This is a good thing sometimes. (I am not going to comment on my levels of success:)
Indubitably. Fare thee well.

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@Drgwen: We can chat in a little while about how we want to proceed with this game.

Thanks for the kind words, and I really appreciate the warm and thoughtful response.

I just want to be clear that I didn’t mean to place any blame on FKR, the group, or your GMing style — which I found generous, open, and very welcoming. The rules-light, collaborative approach was handled well, IMHO, and I totally respect how the group chose to lean into that.

What I’ve come to realize is more about my own preferences than anything else. The freedom and co-creation were genuinely exciting in some ways – but I also discovered that, for me, that same openness can feel a bit unmoored. I’ve learned I need a bit more of a story-bound experience, with a GM who has at least a little bit of a hidden agenda or narrative backbone guiding things. I’ve definitely played in games that were too rigid and railroad-y for my taste – this is just the first time I’ve found myself on the opposite end of that spectrum. =D

It’s been a valuable experience, and I’m grateful to have had the chance to try it.

No problem. I was just pointing out that you could give FKR another try at another time and get a much different experience. Some FKR games are very GM-driven.
Absolutely. We have to try it before we can know if it works. FKR is a hard one in pick-up-groups, everyone needs to be on the same page for it to work.

The best FKR experiences I have had follow the original path: people who know each other and share a common 'background', playing a game together already, but finding that the rules are a bit stifling, and seeing that they can do without since they trust the referee.
Fully. I hear you.

Two players is also a hard road to hoe for this sort of thing, we can't easily rely on the other players to make decisions for us and help provide direction.

That is a totally understandable decision and viewpoint, @htech ! It was fun to play with you and I look forward to our other games together.

And did you have anything specific in mind, @vagueGM ? I am happy to conclude this experiment here, unless you want to recruit a new batch of players?

I am not sure we will have much better results if we try recruit more under the same terms. The lack of any structure is going to be an impediment every time.

FKR is not about the rules, or the number of rules; it is about a focus on the things that are not rules. The rules don't matter, but they do still help make it into 'a game'. FKR is kinda the anti-PbtA, instead of looking at our sheet and going: "Hey, I have this special Move that lets me come back from the dead" (sorry? too soon?:), it is about looking at the fiction and saying, "what can I do, here? ... that's fun." and then: "Do I need to roll anything?" Lots of FKR games have very complex rulesets, it is just about the mindset of focusing on the fiction and the situation, and using the 'rules' as a last resort or afterthought.

How would you feel about adding back something like the rough use of 2400 as speculated about in the Interest Check [ref]? Or something similarly non-intrusive? (I don't really want to go the whole hog and use 'Apocalypse World with the Playbooks re-flavored as Star Wars' which is my main go-to (Star Wars World (Omega)), that is too many rules for this game, but is an option if I do Star Wars again).

That's a shame, because I was enjoying it that way. I thought you were coming up with really interested bespoke "moves" and rolls and we were riffing on each other and your guidance. I would be fine with more complex rules, but it's like you said, I was enjoying focusing on the fiction and only turning to rules when the fiction needed rules.
Sure, that works for me! Again, as wishy-washy as it might sound, I trust you as a GM/facilitator/referee, so I am happy to play in whatever game system you choose to run.