Regroup (OOC)

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Jul 11, 2025 5:39 am
oopsylon says:
... I was going more for subtle than for clever ...
Fair enough, that may be where we were not seeing the scene from the same viewpoint. I don't see a huge distinction between 'clever' and 'subtle', and I did not see anything subtle about Benji's not mentioning certain aspects. What exactly was the Misleading, Distracting, or Tricking part that happened from the omission?

As I said, we could (and now I am thinking should) have spent a bit more time on the scene and gotten it to the point where that applied. Next time we can make it work.
Jul 11, 2025 6:46 am
Ah! That might be the root of our confusion. I’ve been taking a ‘subtle falsehood’ to mean the opposite of a boldfaced or outright lie. As in, it was a subtle lie because it was only subtly untrue. But you’re right that subtle can also mean cunning or crafty.

The misleading part was that Benji was trying to mislead Alasdair by implying he sent the rats away because they displeased Alasdair rather than as part of an escape plan.
Jul 13, 2025 1:32 am
This line confused me a bit:
Quote:
"When you speak about not wanting to sleep alone, he calls over a waiter again, deciding to forego the temptation of visiting your place tonight... while he is still sober."
What does this mean? We have three things--Pers speaking of her fear of going to sleep, the idea of visiting her place, and calling over the server. Is he calling over the server to get Pers another drink, rather than leaving for her place? Or is he asking for the check? Or...?
Jul 13, 2025 5:58 am
oopsylon says:
... it was a subtle lie because it was only subtly untrue. ...
I just worry that, without a cunning plan, subtle lies of omission night not have much effect on the fiction. We only roll when both success and failure could be interesting.
oopsylon says:
... implying he sent the rats away because they displeased Alasdair ...
Yeah, that is how I interpreted it after the 3 picks you made. Playing into Alasdair's emotions.
Jul 13, 2025 5:59 am
Drgwen says:
... This line confused me a bit ...
Sorry about that.
Drgwen says:
... Is he calling over the server to get Pers another drink, rather than leaving for her place? Or is he asking for the check? Or...? ...
I had intended it to be 'to get another drink as you asked for'. But if you want Persephone to signal for the bill then that will happen instead.

If Henry gets you too drunk he may be leery of 'taking advantage of you in that state', but if you don't get him a little more tipsy he will be worried about future consequences related to Emma (finding out). It depends a lot on what you, the player, want to have happen.
Jul 13, 2025 6:03 am
@Delirium: I worry we are leaving you out of the action. Do you want to do anything, still, tonight? 'Tomorrow' is Monday, but David is too sick to go to work.

I don't think anything Persephone does will directly impact you in that timeframe, though, and we won't know about Benji till we see how he gets along underground (Benji does not have signal, and may not even have battery anymore).
Jul 13, 2025 6:23 am
vagueGM says:
I worry we are leaving you out of the action.
Yes.
It is a problem.
And Emma isn't going anywhere until David gets better, so she's going to be out of the action longer than just 'tonight'. She will attempt to figure out what happened with Sarah (if anything) the next morning, but other than that, I don't see what else is there for her to do.
Jul 13, 2025 7:22 pm
Delirium says:
... It is a problem.
And Emma isn't going anywhere until David gets better, so she's going to be out of the action longer than just 'tonight'. ...
We could always try get a friend (if you have any;) to sit with him while you do other things. The Relationships are meant to make it hard for you to engage with the action and be a distraction while you do, not to make it impossible and keep you out of the story.
Delirium says:
... She will attempt to figure out what happened with Sarah ...
You let me know how easy you want that to be. How believable you find it will depend largely on Emma's mood.
Jul 13, 2025 7:54 pm
Emma won't get a friend to watch over her sick husband. I just can't picture her doing it. But she also has no interest in tracking down Chaudry, or getting even with him, so I don't see her getting involved with Pers storyline either way, even if she were free to help. What she does care about is figuring out what’s going on with the constant rainstorm, so maybe we can just timeskip a couple of days until David feels better and she’s free to follow that lead?

Also, I was thinking she might try to 'Figure Someone Out' with David. Would the answers still depend on her mood, or could she get some actual information?
Jul 13, 2025 8:12 pm
Delirium says:
... Emma won't get a friend to watch over her sick husband. ...
That's fine, I am sure we can work with that. Such black and white attitudes could make the character harder to keep in the action, but this is your husband, after all, so he is special.
Delirium says:
... I just can't picture her doing it. ...
Is that a player choice? Or is it that you can't see how that would happen? If you want, we can engineer a reason? For instance: your boss could call you in, putting your Relationships in conflict with each other. This could force you to ask a neighbor to pop over for a few hours, for instance.

But we don't need to do that if you want Emma to stay in the flat.
Delirium says:
... But she also has no interest in tracking down Chaudry ...
Using your 'sick husband' as an excuse to avoid that confrontation seems right in line with what we have seen so far. :)
Delirium says:
... What she does care about is figuring out what’s going on with the constant rainstorm, so maybe we can just timeskip a couple of days until David feels better and she’s free to follow that lead?
...
We could start that from the flat, 'tomorrow'. You have the internet, and your stolen data, and such. You are limited in what you can do from home, though (Hit the Streets [ref] requires you to go out and meet people), and what you find may pull you away, forcing a choice (if you, the player, want it).

We can run that scene when you awake?
Delirium says:
... Also, I was thinking she might try to 'Figure Someone Out' with David. Would the answers still depend on her mood, or could she get some actual information? ...
The answers won't depend on your mood, how you interpret them might. Your interpretation and whether you believe people is up to you.

Figure Someone Out [ref] always yields true answers. But what you can ask depends on the situation and the fiction at hand, though. You can't just roll the dice and ask the questions, what you do needs to be able to lead to those answers.

Would any of those questions help Emma with her doubts?

 • who's pulling your character's strings?
 • what's your character's beef with ˍˍˍˍˍ?
 • what's your character hoping to get from ˍˍˍˍˍ?
 • what does your character worry is going to happen?
 • how could I get your character to ˍˍˍˍˍ?
 • how could I put your character in my Debt?

You could... I don't know, this seems radical... just talk to him?
Jul 13, 2025 8:22 pm
vagueGM says:
Is that a player choice?
I meant I can't picture Emma getting someone else to watch over her husband while he is sick, because she would want to take care of him herself. That also means that even if she starts the investigation from home, she won't follow up on any leads that would require her to go outside until David feels better.

For 'Figure Someone Out', I thought she could ask 'what's your character hoping to get from Sarah', or maybe what he is worried is going to happen. I don't think Emma would voice her concerns directly, though, because she doesn't want to accuse her husband of anything he might not have done.
Jul 13, 2025 9:24 pm
Delirium says:
... can't picture Emma getting someone else to watch over her husband while he is sick, because she would want to take care of him herself. ...
I sorta figured as much, which is precisely why I introduced the discovery that you had (unwillingly) done so this past weekend. :)
Delirium says:
... she won't follow up on any leads that would require her to go outside ...
OK. That will limit you... unless you can get people to come to your home?

This also seems like the right time to put a little pressure from your other Relationship. You may have to rebuff Noah Thompson when he calls you into the office.
Delirium says:
... For 'Figure Someone Out', I thought she could ask 'what's your character hoping to get from Sarah' ...
While that technically could hint at an answer about if he was/is tempted, do we want to go that route? On a hit all that happens is that you kill off this plotline that you introduced (and David asks you a question you might not want a answer (about the weekend and who you were with, maybe?)).

You could also get much the same information (without the risk) by talking to your husband. Emma does not know that the information from Figure Someone Out is always true, that is player-facing.
Delirium says:
... I don't think Emma would voice her concerns directly ...
No, in non-mechanical conversation you would need to work around to it, and the Figure Someone Out questions are not asked by your character, of the other character, they are intuited from the interaction.
Jul 14, 2025 3:03 am
I think I said this before, but I do hope Emma and Persephone make up, and I do hope their plots reconnect.

One of the reasons I tend NOT to play Vampire the Masquerade any more is that, almost inevitably, there is no shared game--there are multiple, loosely connected games, one for each PC, spinning their little webs with their own sets of NPCs, with surprisingly little overlap beyond a shared setting and the occasional overarching setting event. Myself, I don't care for games like that, with PCs running entirely unconnected, solo plot lines for extended periods of time. So I do hope that doesn't last too too long in this game.
Jul 14, 2025 3:38 am
@vagueGM: Emma will be somewhat adverse to inviting people to her home after what happened with Pers. Not saying it is impossible, but less likely. We can start the investigation and see how far she reaches before we need to timeskip. For 'Figuring Something Out', I was talking purely OOC as well. Emma would try to feel her husband out, without asking any direct questions about how he feels about Sarah. But if you think it would kill the plotline, we can run the scene without using any Moves.
Jul 14, 2025 3:53 am
@Drgwen: The damage to Emma and Pers’ friendship is likely irreparable. Emma confided in Pers, and Pers not only used that information to hurt her, she did it in Emma’s own home, 'shouting loud enough' for her husband to overhear, and the neighbors! [ref] She's not likely to ever forgive that, and certainly never forget.

That said, Emma is manipulative. I intentionally left a door open, writing that since Pers is useful to Emma, Emma regretted how she handled the situation. [ref]. Meaning Emma would still prefer to pretend like the two of them are still friends, for her own selfish reasons, though she is not likely to ever confide in anything truly personal with her.

I do actually agree with you about PC interaction. I don’t want to split the party or run separate games either. But I think we need to have a meta-level discussion OOC to realign our goals. If we leave it entirely to the characters, I think they’ll just continue to drift apart naturally. So here goes: Emma’s #1 priority for a while now has been investigating the constant rain. She’s been sidetracked by smaller quests, but this has felt like a major, citywide supernatural event for some time. There was even a big gathering about it before you joined the game. I (as a player) really want to get to the bottom of it. It would be a shame if that plotline wraps up without our characters doing anything meaningful with it. Maybe @VagueGM can work Chaudry into it somehow? I think it’s already been hinted that he has some kind of nefarious agenda. That way, either our two quests merge together (and soon!), or Pers could run into Chaudry and get her revenge while helping find a solution to the citywide problem?
Jul 14, 2025 3:15 pm
Delirium says:
@Drgwen: The damage to Emma and Pers’ friendship is likely irreparable. Emma confided in Pers, and Pers not only used that information to hurt her, she did it in Emma’s own home, 'shouting loud enough' for her husband to overhear, and the neighbors! [ref] She's not likely to ever forgive that, and certainly never forget.
Ah that's sad. To be clear, I agree that Persephone was absolutely wrong to do that. I hadn't intended that to be a Rubicon moment, however, only a rupture that would later be repaired. Honestly, I thought we had been on the same page about it, but apparently not. I am sorry I didn't do a better job communicating around that scene.

I'll be honest, that really takes the wind out of my sails for this game. I am not sure if I want to play in a game in which the PCs don't like one another to such an extent that can't ever be overcome. I'll see about forging meaningful relationships with Benji and some NPCs, I guess, and allow Emma to manipulate Pers or a little while. But once Persephone realizes how Emma really feels, she will try to apologize again, but if Emma doesn't accept it, that's basically the end of our character interaction. And that sucks, frankly.

I apologize that my character choices resulted in this.
Jul 14, 2025 3:19 pm
It isn't my intention to sour anyone's enjoyment of this game, and in that spirit, I am willing to make the adjustment and be more amenable toward the two repairing their relationship.
Jul 14, 2025 3:20 pm
And if my in-character actions hurt your feelings, offended you, or hurt your feelings, I am truly and deeply sorry about that. Seriously.
Jul 14, 2025 3:22 pm
No, it's nothing like that! Seriously!
That was purely an IC reaction, and it is a personal fault of mine. I tend to get too much into my character's 'headspace', which isn't always good for the gaming table.
Jul 14, 2025 3:24 pm
Oh good! That's such a relief. Honestly, that makes all of this much less of an issue for me. I had thought I had crossed a line and pissed you off, tbh!

And obv I don't want to force you to do anything that doesn't feel true to Emma. So it might have to be a very long term, campaign goal that the two of them make up. I'm guessing they'll have to go through a lot together and separately and suffer plenty before they are able to.
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