OOC Chat

Damn that was cool!

Everything checks out, thanks HypCo!

No problem, glad to help.

Based on this, I'd normally grant another check, since it says either drag or carry the opponent. Releasing doesn't require an action and also doesn't specify WHERE the enemy is released. I'd call it a contested check to see if the grappler can force the opponent where he wants them or if the person being grappled can avoid flying over the edge (Probably a shove check)

I think it worked well this time, especially since it was not a fall to the death and was super entertaining :)

So we have an interesting situation in the story right now. Elspa and Rygnar are going to have serious trust issues with Frick and Ygne, and are in a bind with having declared themselves aligned with the Islanders' mortal enemies.

From a story perspective, how do you see this party coming back together?

One way I can see this working is for the Pirates to make a return attack in greater force, destroy the village, and take the party prisoner. Frick, Ygne, Elspa, and Rygnar could wake up in the pirate's brig. Moss and Jarveena could be separated and work from the outside to break the party out, while the other four could fight to survive and break out from within. Or, alliances might be forged with the pirates. I mean, Jarveena and Elspa were pirates and the majority of the party is pretty amoral, so this might be a good fit. There would at least be rum for Frick!

In this possibility, it would be easy to switch out characters too. If anyone wanted to try something new, their old character could perish in the fight while their new character could appear in the brig aside the rest of the party and become part of the team. Or, a vengeful village member who works alongside Moss and Jarveena from the outside?

This suggestion is pretty railroady, but might be that the party needs to fail forward in a pretty significant way in order to create the space to heal up this divide in the party.

Any other ideas?

I'm having a hard time seeing Ygne trust either of them again, under a majority of situations. Lately every effort of hers, which is effort she does not typically make, has been rebuffed. Anyway, it's not that she can't trust them again, but rather because I don't see, realistically, either of the barbarians showing the patience required to put up with Ygne at this point in time, so I never see that wound healing. Short of one of them saving her in the ensuing fight, I don't see getting captured helping her case either.

That said, because this particular PvP has been really stressful for me, and I'd like to take steps to avoid it happening later, I'd be more than willing to make a new character that would fit in with the group dynamic better. I really like Ygne and would prefer if she ran away during the fight though, as opposed to dying. Maybe bring her back in later, if the situation becomes better suited for it.

Unless you're Elspa or Jarveena, Rygnar has serious trust issues regardless of who you are; he usually doesn't act on his impulses though. He also didn't see anyone, except Khiva, attack Elspa and he only saw Ygne snap a stick and I don't think he's smart enough to put two and two together that the stick was what made him feel funny. In Rygnar's eyes, Ygne is still needed by Elspa for the mission and therefore "off-limits" to death; as it stands right now, Rygnar would definitely save Ygne and even Frick from most things.

That said, I don't want to ruin the game for anyone and you saying it was stressful makes me feel horrible. I don't want you to give up a character you like because of me and I don't think I'd be able to enjoy Rygnar knowing you gave up a character you liked because of him. I vote for Rygnar to be exiled, he has a natural hostile personality and not very nice.

Ack, no. Don't feel bad. All's well as far as my overall feelings toward the game. No hard feelings toward anyone, of course. :)

More to the point, I don't mind playing a new character, and I voted Ygne because I feel like that would be the easiest fix. Even if Rygnar left, Ygne's angry more so at Elspa after all of this, anyway. Additionally, I think that if Ygne were missing, or at least wasn't killed by Elspa or Rygnar, then Frick likely wouldn't be opposed to mending things between him and the barbarians. He seemed more interested in fighting because Ygne was and/or because it would be a good fight. Naat can confirm or deny, of course. And again, if Ygne isn't killed, I wouldn't be opposed to bringing her back at a later point, if it seems like it might work out. Rygnar leaving doesn't fix the rift in the party, whereas I feel that if Ygne left, it would.

Okay, I'm good as long as everyone else is having a good time.

I honestly don't see Rygnar mending anything with Frick. While me as the player would want nothing more than for Rygnar and Frick to have a 'Dillon, you son of a bitch' handshake, in Rygnar's eyes Frick has wronged him and "cheap-shotted" him on two separate occasions. Sure, Rygnar leaving doesn't fix any rifts but him leaving certainly makes sure no more are opened. Also and maybe it's just me but I feel Rygnar is a bit taxing on CancerMan; having to keep him in check with his anger might of been fun if it was every now and again but Rygnar pretty much gets mad at everything.

Yeah, things have gone downhill fast in this game! (The situation, not the fun)

I can't see at this point would bring this party back together. Frick is pretty easy to get along with, but Rygnar has "attacked" his best friend a couple of times already, for pretty near to no reason (as far as Frick is concerned). He has no problem with Elspa, really, and could get along with Rygnar if the barbarian wasn't so stubborn, but I can't see that changing.

If Ygne ran away, Frick would leave to track her down. It seems that either Frick and Ygne are going to disappear, or Elspa and Rygnar.

That said, I would not be opposed to making a new character :)

What might have started the downward spiral was the mistrust of magic. I played Elspa as superstitious of things that didn't seem natural (at least, to her eyes), so arriving at the village was the turning point. Seeing the others readily accept the strange and mystical powers from the villagers made Elspa think they were ready to sell their souls, and Ygne's "insults" sorta iced the cake. OOC I know Ygne's personality and it wasn't supposed to be an insult, but IC Elspa was already suspicious and extremely wary; being accosted by someone she thought was on her side waved a big red flag. Elspa started to suspect that the villagers had ensorcelled the group, and with none of them stepping in to defend her, figured they had all thrown their hats in with Khiva.

Moss' donation of food made Elspa think that there might be hope that the enchantments weren't strong, and after the battle Elspa figured she'd give the others a chance. That meant explaining the plan and the events that transpired, and would be the ultimate test to determine which side the others chose. And to show that she was willing to accept the others in, she bit her cheek and used the unnatural ivory rods.

Anyway, that's where Elspa came from. Rygnar's no more of a burden on Elspa than a barrel of rum. She thinks Frick is capable, Jarveena is feisty, and Moss is weird but okay.

It is rather funny when it comes to Ygne and Elspa, because Elspa is probably the person least likely to vocalize any semblance of approval. Her mentality is that each member of the pack pulls their own weight and does so for the good of the group's survival, not for individual accolades; approval is given in the sharing of food, shelter, and defense. Elspa does think Ygne's too selfish to be of benefit to the group, but withheld judgment in the beginning.

I think if we were to get the band back together, it would depend on what we could expect when it comes to magic and magical items. Elspa's far too suspicious of magic and if everyone wraps themselves in arcane/divine power she would not want to stick around. I could probably write a whole post on what Elspa considers bad magic, of course, but for the purposes of the party, it might be better for me to roll up another character.

I kept feeling that it all came down to that one check to see if Elspa could realize the ivory rods weren't magical. Didn't realize Ygne had anything to do with Elspa's decision making. Elspa is so stone faced, Ygne only ever felt ignored, which just makes her want to act out more.
Right! Ygne is intended to be this way at the start of course, and really all it takes is for someone she likes to talk to her. I had planned on her transitioning into this pack mentality, since that's what we had discussed at the start, but she needed a mote of sensitivity from someone new. That was not to be found in the party either due to the situation or because we all made course characters to survive the isle.

Given some patience and sensitivity, there's certainly a lot of ways that Ygne could like the group again, but I'm certain that they are not realistic expectations of the party members.

That's funny because at that time Moss was still thinking how he could use the party to his benefits. I built him as an evil character who is a loner and has no qualms about killing or using others for his own gain. But having always been a loner, being part of a group is truly changing him. I don't think he'll ever be good, but Ygne's presence (in who he sees himself when he was Young, inocent and full of himself...) and Jarveena (with who he feels a connection he still does not understand, it's not love but I still don't know what it is...) with their shared experience against the dead tree and the gift/loan of the rapier, are changing him...

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on how your characters ended up getting to where we are. It seems like given the mix of personalities, faithfully roleplaying your characters made this conflict almost inevitable.

My characters played a big role in that. Auntie Zilla reinforced your conflict trajectory at every turn. The Seventh's pride and Khiva's responsibility would never let them back down from a fight. There were no obvious good guys or bad guys, only sides to pick and choose from, and I had the different sides pull at different parts of the party.

All of this sounds good in theory, but the story hasn't found a center yet and so we spiral off into other things. I think making a more clear mission with a fairly obvious villain would have served the story better, allowing the party to stay on the same page more often than not. Shades of grey are okay, but when the characters are also pretty grey the story can get lost in the fog: there needs to be something that keeps the protagonists connected despite their possibly conflicting motives or personalities. I thought the goal of "get off the island" was going to serve that purpose, but even that got lost in the shades of grey.

By no means is this game a failure. It has been great fun by all accounts and I have learned a few things, but the things I have learned are weighing on me a bit. I'm not sure how I feel about continuing. I definitely want to keep gaming with you all, but I need a vacation from this particular adventure. I'm not opposed to starting it up again in the future, but I've realized that I'd like to take a break and do something else in the meantime.

The most important thing is that you guys are AWESOME players and I am very happy to have found such a dedicated, talented, and fun game group!

Hey, I am loving this, but if you need a break, you need a break. If you want to run something else, that's a little bit less "grey", I'd be happy to be in that as well ;)

That certainly took a turn that I wasn't expecting. Definitely take a break if you need one. I do hope this game continues eventually, because the quality of it has been incredible. You've been a fantastic GM, writer, and facilitator of creative ideas.

Continuing to play with this group sounds great to me. What were you thinking about doing in the meantime? Something you are wanting to run, or are you wanting to break from GMing in general?

If you're the DM, you can count me interested whatever the system ! Clearly one of my best rp groups ever !

If you want to take a break, you earned it ! I think I'll use this time to work more on my Dark Sun homebrew, I can easily imagine all of you in my first game...

Agreed, you deserve any sort of break you want after the madness we created.