Tajanna versus Hawke, #1

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Ezeriah Inactive forever!

Mar 7, 2017 3:42 pm
Mar 7, 2017 3:42 pm
Re: Tajanna versus Hawke, #1
Meribson says:
OOC:
Ezeriah says:
Maybe I'm just tired but, I'm not sure why Hawke is at:
Wounds Threshold: 6/16
Strain Threshold: 7/14

when he was at this before Tajanna's last attack:
Wounds Threshold: 2/16
Strain Threshold: 4/14

I think he should be at:
Wounds Threshold: 2/16
Strain Threshold: 6/14 (4 + 2 for 2nd Maneuver to pick up Lightsaber)
Tajanna's attacks was a hit with 2 additional successes, so used parry to mitigate the damage just forgot to say so in the OOC and I forgot about the 2 strain for second maneuver.

If my understanding of the rules are correct then Hawke is currently at Short range from Tajanna. Moving everything over to defense I'm seeing as Hawke adopting ready stance and preparing himself for incoming assault.
Meribson, the net result of that attack was 4 Advantage (the 3 Successes and 3 Failures canceling out).

Ezeriah Inactive forever!

Mar 7, 2017 3:45 pm
Mar 7, 2017 3:45 pm
Re: Tajanna versus Hawke, #1
Also. Tajanna most recent attack 'I can't Roll More than 8 Dice' had too many dice. It should have just been 4 Purple, 2 Black. Following standard PbP dice trimming, we start from the right, so the bottom two Purple we can ignore, keeping the two Black. The net result is:

0 Successes, 4 Threat for Tajanna.

Ezeriah Inactive forever!

Mar 7, 2017 4:04 pm
Mar 7, 2017 4:04 pm
Re: Tajanna versus Hawke, #1
Tefmon says:
OOC:
Is Hawke still in Engaged range with Tajanna, or is he now in Short? Because if he's no longer Engaged, I don't think it makes sense that he'd be able to commit his Lightsaber skill pool to defence, given that he's unable to use that pool for offence.
I get what you're saying, but it's also logically sensible to prepare for defense, especially when you can't do anything on offense.

Now, this is what we're playtesting it for, as I have to look at what just happened and wonder about it:

Hawke had to move to get his weapon (Maneuver #1), then pick it up (Maneuver #2), so is it believable that his defense could be that prepared? When we consider this, we have to consider the idea of Incidentals and Maneuvers.

According to F&D RaW, p. 205:

Incidentals are "...minor activities that characters can undertake that require extremely little time or effort." The example that most closely resembles adjusting for offense/defense is this one "Minor movements such as shifting position, peeking around a corner, or looking behind a person."

Maneuvers are "...activities that aren't complex enough to warrant a skill check, but which still involve time and effort on the part of a character." Looking at the examples that follow, I see one that closely resembles the idea of adjusting one's combat efforts toward offense/defense, because the example is literally one that increases offense (Aim) not to mention there is a defensive Maneuver called Guarded Stance.

So, with those concepts in mind, and just picturing the sequence in my mind, it doesn't seem like Hawke should have been able to put together better defense before Tajanna got to him (in a movie scence, I really picture Hawke getting his Lightsaber up to defend himself at the last second). And, based on the Aim/Guarded Stance coupled with the examination of Incidentals vs Maneuvers, I've got to adjust my thinking toward this:

Adjusting one's Combat Dice toward attack or defense seems like it should cost a Maneuver; it seems less like an Incidental, and more like a Maneuver (e.g., Aim). With further consideration, I think this will work well, especially since Combat Dice don't need to be adjusted every round, and characters can also tap into a 2nd Maneuver any time they want, which still leaves using other Maneuver type talents wide open for use, depending on the player's combat style and preferences, which is what this is all about: opening up the game a little more to make combat more interesting, rather than the 'rinse and repeat' event that it currently is.

Also, having it cost a Maneuver will add some tactical depth to the decision, beyond the reflexive "well, I can't Engage, so let's go all out defense." And it was that moment in the fight that sold me on this idea: someone in Hawke's position, after the Disarm, shouldn't have been as prepared.

Thoughts?

Ezeriah Inactive forever!

Mar 8, 2017 6:56 pm
Mar 8, 2017 6:56 pm
Re: Tajanna versus Hawke, #1
Tefmon says:
OOC:
Although, if Hawke's pool was already allocated heavily towards defence, rather than towards offence as it was in this scenario, disarming still wouldn't have done much other than prevent a weak attack.
Keep in mind that Disarming isn't the 'uber move', and sometimes it's just going to prevent an attack, as it did there (although, since you went full offense, preventing any attack is a good thing!).

Disarm has tactical value, depending on how you use it (e.g., Hawke's at Short Range and you fry him with Force Lightning, Lightsaber Throw, Force Move/Throw him, weapon scattering off the edge of a bridge, etc). The meat here is that Disarm is situational, and not the ace card it seems to be at first glance.

Also, still tinkering with that one, and really appreciative of the playtesting here and the feedback. Based on the combat tables, I'm thinking of opening things up to where Disarm simply costs a lot of Advantage, as it should be rare, and a move usually performed by highly skilled combatants against inferior opponents. Reasoning: I want to make it possible to Disarm someone, without wearing them down via Strain (that classic movie scene where the master disarms the opponent in the first move, musketeer style). But, this move should only happen when a master goes against a mediocre talent, or when an opponent of skill has that rare mental lapse that allows him to be disarmed (dice going the wrong way).

Since there are Talents for disarming opponents (Sum Djem via Makashi, Niman, or Shii-Cho Specializations) and Resist Disarm (Makashi Spec), reflecting saber styles that focus on the techniques, I'm thinking that the standard Disarm maneuver might just end up costing 6 Advantage (5 for those with Sum Djem), as a means of keeping the Disarm move less common, but available, and something that doesn't require a worn out opponent low on Strain (cutting out the ability to for those without the Makashi Resist Disarm to spend strain to do so).

Perhaps the best way I can make sense out of this is by using the duel between Obi-Wan and Anakin/Vader at the end of Episode III. If that battle had been played out using the core RaW written, both combatants would have been disarmed several times each. And that's some of the imagery in mind when I consider what combat should look like between two skilled combatants: an intense battle, hard fought, not some klutz fest of "Oh darn, I dropped my weapon... again." and "Damn!? Again" and then both of the combatants laugh themselves to death, incapable of picking up their weapons due to the slapstick shenanigans.

Ezeriah Inactive forever!

Mar 8, 2017 6:56 pm
Mar 8, 2017 6:56 pm
Re: Tajanna versus Hawke, #1
So, I know it's another change, and I appreciate the playtesting efforts, but let's just move forward with Disarm being a 6 Advantage move (5 with Sum Djem). It will still happen, just less frequently, which will make sense.

Ezeriah Inactive forever!

Mar 8, 2017 6:58 pm
Mar 8, 2017 6:58 pm
Re: Tajanna versus Hawke, #1
Also, it would appear I accidentally deleted your last post Tefmon; some of it's a quote above though. Sorry about that.

MeribsonInactive forever!

Mar 14, 2017 1:29 am
Mar 14, 2017 1:29 am
Re: Tajanna versus Hawke, #1
A smirk settled on Hawke's face as he parried the strike that his opponent sent his way. As he made minute adjustments to how he held his lightsaber, his mind raced as he analyzed her attack patterns.

Wait. Wait. NOW!

As the moment opened, Hawke ducked under a strike before returning with his own attack.

Wounds Threshold: 2/16
Strain Threshold: 6/14
Soak: 5 (Armor Master talent included)
Defense (Ranged/Melee): 1/1
OOC:
Using Maneuver moving 3 yellow to attack, keeping green in defense. Using the 4 threat to grant a total of 4 boost to Hawke's attack. Action to attack

Rolls

Lightsaber (3 Skill+Intellect; Control Sense, Melee Defense 1)

2 Success, 4 Advantage, 1 Failure, 2 Threat

Total: 1 Success, 2 Advantage

Boost from Tajanna's Threat

2 Success, 3 Advantage

Total: 2 Success, 3 Advantage

MeribsonInactive forever!

Mar 14, 2017 1:32 am
Mar 14, 2017 1:32 am
Re: Tajanna versus Hawke, #1
OOC:
Wow...that was better than I expected. Using 2 Advantage to recover strain and the remaining 3 to trigger Crit. Based on how it was ruled in the last fight, I'm rolling once and adding 20.

Rolls

Critical - (1d100+20)

(37) + 20 = 57

Ezeriah Inactive forever!

Mar 14, 2017 9:43 pm
Mar 14, 2017 9:43 pm
Re: Tajanna versus Hawke, #1
Bad news, Meribson. Still a hit, just less awesome. if you look at the table in the F&D book for how to spend Advantage/Threat etc (also found on this page in the Library) you'll see that it takes 2 Threat to convert into one Boost (mirroring the Advantage conversions).

Trimming Boost dice, from the right per standard PbP method, we drop the last two dice, meaning a loss of 2 Success and 1 Advantage, reducing the Boost roll to 2 Advantage.

The net result for your roll is 1 Success, 4 Advantage.

Since I'm doing the calculating now (an inherent PbP penalty to move things along), I'm just going to trim from your critical, and you get +10, netting a crit roll of 67 = ...

Scattered Sense (Tajanna removes all Boost dice from checks until the end of the encounter; I also interpret this as there's no reason to add Boosts to Tajanna's checks anymore, as they will be removed due to the crit)

Ezeriah Inactive forever!

Mar 14, 2017 9:46 pm
Mar 14, 2017 9:46 pm
Re: Tajanna versus Hawke, #1
Also, when you keep dice from your combat pool for defense, please write something like "I'm converting one Yellow to a Purple for defense, and 1 Green to a Black."

Anyway, Hawke's Green converts to an added Purple to the difficulty of Tajanna's next attack.

MeribsonInactive forever!

Mar 15, 2017 12:53 am
Mar 15, 2017 12:53 am
Re: Tajanna versus Hawke, #1
Ezeriah says:
Also, when you keep dice from your combat pool for defense, please write something like "I'm converting one Yellow to a Purple for defense, and 1 Green to a Black."

Anyway, Hawke's Green converts to an added Purple to the difficulty of Tajanna's next attack.
OOC:
Bold mine, which is it?

Ezeriah Inactive forever!

Mar 15, 2017 3:44 pm
Mar 15, 2017 3:44 pm
Re: Tajanna versus Hawke, #1
Gah. My mistake.

1 Yellow converts to 1 Purple.

1 Green converts to 1 Black.

TefmonInactive forever!

Mar 16, 2017 6:10 am
Mar 16, 2017 6:10 am
Re: Tajanna versus Hawke, #1
Fuck. That was clumsy. I'll have to end this quickly.

Tajanna retreated as Hawke struck true, barely managing to parry some of his flurry of blows. Gathering her balance, Tajanna returned with her own counter-flurry, albeit not an overly coordinated one.
OOC:
Tajanna will spend 3 Strain to Parry 3 Wounds from Hawke's attack, thus taking 3 Wounds from Hawke's attack. On her turn, she will use her Maneuver to activate Defensive Stance, suffering 1 Strain to Upgrade the difficulty of all incoming melee attacks by 1 for the next round (As Tajanna's defensive pool has no Purple dice to Upgrade to Red, what information I found states that any Upgrades will first Increase the difficulty if it cannot be Upgraded), and will use her Action to Attack with 5 Green dice.

That will give Tajanna a Defensive pool of RPB.
Wounds Threshold: 3/12
Strain Threshold: 6/13
Soak: 2
Defense (Ranged/Melee): 1/1

Rolls

Lightsaber (5 Cun, 0 Skill; 1 Dif, 1 Melee Def, 1 Black Def Pool): Ganking the Gank

3 Success, 3 Advantage, 1 Failure, 1 Threat

Total: 2 Success, 2 Advantage

TefmonInactive forever!

Mar 16, 2017 6:13 am
Mar 16, 2017 6:13 am
Re: Tajanna versus Hawke, #1
OOC:
Tajanna will spend 1 Advantage to recover 1 Strain, and 1 Advantage to trigger a Critical.

Crit (40): Stinger: Increase difficulty of next check by 1.
Wounds Threshold: 3/12
Strain Threshold: 5/13
Soak: 2
Defense (Ranged/Melee): 1/1
Last edited March 16, 2017 6:15 am

Rolls

Critical Hit - (1d100)

(40) = 40

Ezeriah Inactive forever!

Mar 16, 2017 8:32 pm
Mar 16, 2017 8:32 pm
Re: Tajanna versus Hawke, #1
Tefmon says:
That will give Tajanna a Defensive pool of RPB.
That's a great way to show your defensive pool, Tefmon. For those not interested in using the text color, a simple Red Purple Black would work as well. But I like how that method eliminates any confusion about Tajanna's defense pool, and it makes sense for it to be the defender's responsibility to make sure any attackers know what they are up against, just as it is the attacker's responsibility to get the dice right for their attack.

Also, nicely played with the Defensive Stance; it shows how Talents are indeed still very viable. That's what I'm going for here: allowing players to have their own lightsaber combat style, that works with their character. And, although you can adjust your attack/defense pools, it's something to be done strategically, based on the strengths and weaknesses of the combatants, relative to the situation. Adjustable pools just allows you to have your own brand of fighting.

And yeah, you're right about the upgrading of dice pools, Tefmon. If there are no Purples to change to Red, you add another Purple. This is in contrast to downgrading dice pools, wherein Reds are changed to Purples, but Purples do not get removed from the dice pool.

Ezeriah Inactive forever!

Mar 16, 2017 8:40 pm
Mar 16, 2017 8:40 pm
Re: Tajanna versus Hawke, #1
Tefmon says:
Crit (40): Stinger: Increase difficulty of next check by 1.
So, assuming an attack from Hawke, that makes Tajanna's Defense Pool: RPPB.Of course, that extra Purple difficulty is for whatever Hawke's next check is.

Ezeriah Inactive forever!

Mar 16, 2017 8:58 pm
Mar 16, 2017 8:58 pm
Re: Tajanna versus Hawke, #1
Also, part of each of your character's combat stat blocks is a section called 'Critical Injuries.' Really, your stat blocks should look like this, thorough, yet still lighter for Hyperspace Duels:


Tajanna:
Wounds Threshold: 3/12
Strain Threshold: 5/13
Soak: 2
Defense (Ranged/Melee): 1/1

Parry Rating (Ranks + 2): 3
Reflect Rating (Ranks + 2): 3

Force Rating: 1
Committed Force Dice: 1 (Sense Defensive Upgrade-- 1 Purple to Red)

Critical Injuries: 1 (Scattered Senses: no Boost dice until end of encounter).
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Index > Game Forums > Star Wars: Vanguard of Darkness > Hyperspace Duels > Small Cargo Hold (#15 on the Spear's deck plan)
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