How Do I Even...?

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Len

Oct 19, 2018 6:54 pm
Honestly, most fights with Monster Manual creatures don't last past 3 or 4 rounds as it is, so breaking the math of the game isn't that big a deal in my opinion.

I'd like to see the escalation die used in different ways. So, for example, maybe there is a 'summon Beelzebub counter' in a fight, and it starts at zero. If at least 1 evil cultist is chants the dark ritual in this round of combat, it goes up by 1 at the end of the round. Beelzebub is summoned when the counter gets to 4. But, there are bone devils between you and the chanters that you can't ignore either. And for good measure, the chanters are actually mind-controlled children so fireballing them is off the table. Maybe you land a silence spell and stave it off for a couple rounds but then the wizard loses concentration and the chanting comes back up and the die keeps going up.

I think when that die is at 3, the game would be super tense and fun. But, you'd have to allow for the possibility of actually allowing Beelzebub to come into our world. It's a difficult thing to balance - you want the players to be able to succeed, but there should be a reasonable chance of failure or there is no tension.

I guess you could lower the stakes. Perhaps Beelzebub isn't summoned, but a gateway to hell is opened somewhere in the world. Or you could like in Season 4 of Angel where the big bad that got summoned turned out to bring about world peace and perfect happiness, or at least the illusion of it.

Anyway, I'm getting off topic :)
Oct 29, 2018 2:44 am
Naatkinson says:
I forget my cigar. Damn.
I was going to say, "You can still use the luck point" but I went back and read the Lucky feat, and it  says, "You can choose to spend one of your luck points after you roll the die, but before the outcome is determined."

Because of the nature of PbP though, sometimes it's a good idea to be flexible with these rules. Is this one of those cases? I'm feeling like "no, it's not", but what do you guys think? What are some of those cases?
Apr 21, 2019 1:29 pm
For this first encounter against the kalding I would like to try the mob combat rules as suggested by Len and also Dramasailor over on the Discord chat. I'm reading Page 250 of the DMG and also this article... and I don't get it LOL! I mean, I get the concept, but I don't follow the calculations, and I don't understand how to use the Sly Flourish calculator.

I'm rereading it now. Gonna need your help wrapping my head around this one!
DMG says:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/368611537012916238/569517443240951810/20190421_213831.jpg
For example, eight orcs surround a fighter. The orcs' attack bonus is +5, and the fighter's AC is 19. The orcs need a 14 or higher to hit the fighter. According to the table, for every three orcs that attack the fighter, one of them hits. There are enough orcs for two groups of three. The remaining two orcs fail to hit the fighter.
Okay, I get that. Doesn't feel very intuitive to me. Totally reliant on a table. But okay.

Now how about a PC attacking the mob? I suppose I go with treating the mob like a swarm. A single mass of hit points that you whittle down.

Obviously this deprives the baddies of tactics a little bit. You no longer have one guy disarming the PC, then knocking the PC prone and then two other guys laying the smackdown from flanking positions. But I think for the kalding, who Makisig describes as relying on overwhelming numbers rather than martial prowess, this'll do.

Len

Apr 21, 2019 3:16 pm
The link to the table didn't work but I'm assuming you're talking about the "handling mobs; mob attacks" table? It is definitely THAC0-y in its complexity. Here's the math behind it:

Say 30 pirates with +3 to hit and avg damage of 4 attack Elspa (AC 18) and Rygnar (AC 15). Fifteen attack Elspa; they need to roll a 15 (18-3=15) or higher to hit, which happens 30% of the time (or ~ 1 in 3 times) you roll a d20. So about 30% or 5 pirates will hit (0.3 x 15 = 5), doing 5x4=20 damage before resistances. I see the actual chart says 1 in every 4 hit; I'm assuming that's because they bundled the 15 with the 16. In general the table seems to skew in favour of the players.

The other 15 attack Rygnar. They need to roll 12 (15-3=12) or higher to hit, so about 45% will hit (or about half). So Rygnar gets hit by about 7 pirates (0.45 x 15 ~= 7) for 7x4= 28 damage before resistances.

The table basically replaces the need to do the multiplication and division, you can just look up how many monsters you need to get 1 hit and count from there how many hits you get.
[ +- ] Dice Probabilities of Elspa's example
It deprives baddies from tactics, yes, but not from bad ass description and cool naration!
Last edited April 21, 2019 4:16 pm
Apr 23, 2019 12:08 pm
I thought I posted this yesterday:
Quote:
CancerMan says:
i was going to post something in regards to mob combat, but i think it might detract from the thread.  I only wanted to say that the rules as presented are really designed to evoke the feeling of mass combat, like we'd see in movies or video games.

At least, that's my impression.  The heroes are stalwart against the onrushing horde, those few against many.  The rules provide a little bit of random chance to see how the battle goes.

If we did want tactical combat, perhaps we narrow our focus down to two or three opponents against a single hero, while the rest of the battle rages on.  Obviously this only works if the heroes are among other allies, like NPC soldiers.
I'm going to try these mechanics as an experiment but I already feel like it's not going to be my favorite way of running combat.

"Zooming in" on heroes fighting smaller units is how I instinctively feel like running mass combat. We'll see that if/when you decide to join the rest of the tikbalang in their war.

I'm totally drained today, and need to cram a cake tomorrow. Will begin this encounter after.
May sneak a post piecemeal though, we'll see. :-)
Apr 23, 2019 12:32 pm
Reading through Len's post again, I now realize what should've been glaringly obvious from the beginning: There's no rolling. Assuming you send the same number of baddies at the hero every round, the hero will take a fixed amount of damage per round for that encounter. That amount will change as the hero takes baddies out, reducing their numbers.

Well, duh! I can be so slow sometimes! XD
Jun 28, 2019 6:57 am
Gee, I gotta be honest, I didn't even think about the spellcasting stat for those tattoos. I didn't even take those spells from a single class spell list. I just picked what I thought might be fun but not OP. So can you guys critique them as a whole or individually?
Quote:
Each tattoo holds 1 charge, replenishes daily at dawn. Bonus action to activate unless otherwise specified. Activating a tattoo is not considered spellcasting. None of these effects require Concentration. All effects have a range of Self only.

Lightning: Lightning Lure
Wind: Longstrider
Fern: Cure wounds
Flower: Heroism
Tree: Resistance 
Sun: Word of Radiance
Crocodile or Python skin: Shield (reaction to trigger)
Storm cloud: Thunderclap
Swords: Sword Burst
Here's the relevant DMG text that I didn't bother to consult until now. Would it be game-breaking to just say "all tattoo effects use +5 spellcasting ability modifier"? Was it a bad idea to mess with the action economy and hand-wave concentration?
Quote:
SPELLS
Some magic items allow the user to cast a spell from the item. The spell is cast at the lowest possible spell  level, doesn't expend any of the user's spell slots, and requires no components, unless the item's description says otherwise. The spell uses its normal casting time, range, and duration, and the user of the item must concentrate if the spell requires concentration. Many items, such as potions, bypass the casting of a spell and confer the spell's effects, with their usual duration. Certain items make exceptions to these rules, changing the casting time, duration, or other parts of a spell.

A magic item, such as certain staffs, may require you to use your own spellcasting ability when you cast a spell from the item. If you have more than one spellcasting ability, you choose which one to use with the item. If you don't have a spellcasting ability-perhaps you're a rogue with the Use Magic Device feature- your spellcasting ability modifier is +0 for the item, and your proficiency bonus does apply.
Thanks in advance, guys!
Jul 1, 2019 5:25 pm
We could roll with it and see if it works. That's how we homebrew!
Jul 1, 2019 5:30 pm
I can tell that some of these are far more powerful than others. Specifically the one that grants Heroism, which is basically an extra 50 hit points if you give us the equivalent of a +5 spellcasting modifier.
Jul 1, 2019 5:36 pm
It looks like I misunderstand Heroism. I didn't think the THP would accumulate!
Jul 1, 2019 5:47 pm
Jabes.plays.RPG says:
It looks like I misunderstand Heroism. I didn't think the THP would accumulate!
It won't accumulate, but it wouldn't be odd of someone like Baracus to burn through all of that HP each round, thus allowing it to total an additional 50 hit points (though 5 max at a time)
Jul 1, 2019 6:06 pm
Ah that makes sense. I didn't think of that. Thanks for the feedback! Can you suggest a good alternative that delivers the same flavor but isn't so OP? I should've stuck with my original idea of only granting cantrip level effects.
Jul 1, 2019 6:13 pm
Jabes.plays.RPG says:
Ah that makes sense. I didn't think of that. Thanks for the feedback! Can you suggest a good alternative that delivers the same flavor but isn't so OP? I should've stuck with my original idea of only granting cantrip level effects.
I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, honestly. Game balance is over-rated! :P

But if you do want to balance it more, there are a couple ways to do it.

1. Lower the power of the outliers (+3 spellcasting mod lowers the HP gained, for example.

OR

2. Increase the power/usability of the weaker ones. Grant more uses of the cantrip abilities, allow them to be used as a reaction or bonus action, etc.
Jul 1, 2019 6:37 pm
Quote:
Each tattoo holds 1 charge, replenishes daily at dawn. Bonus action to activate unless otherwise specified. Activating a tattoo is not considered spellcasting. None of these effects require Concentration. All effects have a range of Self only.
They already are bonus action. I'm reluctant to add daily uses. The intent behind the tattoos is a low-impact buff. All the tikbalang have loads of them. Short of restricting these to cantrips, I think setting a lower spellcasting bonus would be the next best option.

Thoughts?
Jul 1, 2019 6:47 pm
Sure. +3 seems reasonable.
Jul 1, 2019 6:59 pm
I think +3 is a good compromise :)

Len

Jul 2, 2019 6:22 am
It's fine, I can pick another one. Wind: Longstrider seems fun. Knight Rider turbo boost. Post edited.
Last edited July 2, 2019 6:24 am

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