Metagamers Anonymous

All metagame stuff goes here. Mainly for Questions and comments on the action.
I'll unlock the thread as soon as the game starts.

We have three characters now. The game thread will open tomorrow morning central european time.
Good luck and have fun everyone...

Later players will be worked into the story as we go...

One important note:
You are all free and welcome to describe your arrival at the inn up to the point you enter the building.
I'll take over then. :-)
I'll edit down all post that describe more. You'll see why later.

Please rename your characters everyone.

Due to a bug that Keleth fixed today custom characters did not have a name field.
As soon as you add names for your characters you will be able to post in your character's name.

How do you have your character's pic appear like that under your avatar? Will it be done automatically when posting in your game's thread? Sorry, a bit new to this site...

The game is on! :-) Have fun and good luck!

I was waiting for someone searching for torches he doesn't have. They are cheap in the shops but you didnt buy any :-)

Muahahahahah!!! Evil disembodied GM laughter sounds echoing through the pith dark hallways...

I wiped out my 10GP on leather armor and a warhammer. No torches or rations. Oh well, Grapthor is known for bad financial decisions haha! Glad that as a dwarf I have darkvision :-P

I still have some money left, that could be arranged...

Kajael: you didn't pay attention to my post properly :-) I told you what to roll and when for waking up :-) the fumble serves you right but has no futher consequences :-D

Please all use the integrated diceroller to add rolls to your posts and use meaningfull descriptions. You'll find it when using the "advanced" button to reply. I'll roll everything in the open, too but as GM I'll have to sometimes not tell you what I roll for :-)

Is inline rolling possible? Doesn't seem so...

I'm not entirely sure if I'm doing anything wrong; I don't see a way to roll in my post, so I roll in the tool page and copy past it in my post. Am I missing something here?

yes you are :-) under the quick reply text field there is an "advanced" button. Klick that and at the bottom o the editor page you'll find a section "Rolls and Decks"
Add a basic roll and fill in the fields... That way nobody can cheat :-)

Hmm, okay, I found the advanced button, but I don't see anything much different when I press on it. I'll try another browser just in case...

I'm on chromium...

Hmm, okay. I tried Firefox and it's more of the same. I guess I'll try downloading chrome again, hopefully whatever malware issues they had back then has been fixed since I got rid of it...

Free advice: I'll handle searching and looking at stuff like old text adventures and MUDs. Just "looking around" will most likely give you a general description of the room area depending on the result of the check. Maybe a little more detail. If you want to find out about something more you will have to narrow and specify your search. You can investigate any Detail I meniton in my general description further as well as some things I might not have mentioned. In general the more specific and detailed the description of the search the more likely you might find something hidden, if there is something to be found. Sensing magic is also its own check. (Mind+AU). The same rules as above apply to that. the more specific the search the more detailed the result.

BTW: I'm not going to tell you how and when to search. And I won't tell you wich senses to use. Usually I will assume you are using your eyes. But you can always employ all of your senses. I will keep descriptions relatively short and only tell you OBVIOUS stuff. Dhis is dungeoncrawling. You have to give me the input on what to tell you...

Conclusion of the rant: Don't blame me if you are surprised by stuff you didn't care to watch out for...

Jabes - the target number is the total of your attribute + trait + any bonuses from talents - GM's penalties.

Another free advice: You should probably all be mapping. If the player gets lost the character does, too. Your map reperesents the player's memory of the place. I'll give descriptions in meters. 1 meter = 1 square on DS maps.
I'll try to be precise about that and if anything is unclear please ask.

Alright, I started mapping. Here is what I have so far for the dungeon. correct me if I'm wrong;

Runes of Oblivion

good enough...

that looks great!

So where is everybody from? I'm from a suburb of Detroit, Michigan , USA

I'm pretty sure I already told that in the Dungeonslayers forum, but I'm from the province of Québec in canada.

Karlsruhe, southwest Germany :-)

I'm from Manila, Philippines :-)

That looks great! Thanks! :-)

Please pardon my question about the Checks...what I really wanted to know was how do you know which Attribute & Trait to use? I just went back to the rulebook and found the answer on page 36. Thanks, all, and pardon the noobness. Believe me, I'll have more dumb questions for you as we go along :-P

The table in the rulebook is just some examples. In general the GM decides what to roll but if you pick something sensible for the task it schould usually be ok. And you can always just describe your action and I'll tell you whar to roll and if a roll is nescessary.

What we've explored so far?

Absolutely nothing happening this weekend... :-(

. o O (zZzZzZzZ)

What we've explored so far?

Cool! We have a "last post" icon on the thread titles now!

Anyway - let's keep going!

Hey Everyone! Looking forward to cracking some skulls (with arrows? :p ) in this new system. Don't worry, I shouldn't require too much hand holding, I have an addiction to picking up new game systems.

I saw earlier people were sharing where they are from, I'm from Saskatchewan, Canada.

A true global game! Welcome!

Once you grasp the target number aspect, and that bonuses/penalties modify that and not your roll, you will be fine

Welcome to a fellow Kanadian!

I'm from Québec myself.

Cool!

So I've had a bit of a chance to look over the mechanics and I think I know what's going on. Very different than other systems I've played before.

So am I reading it correctly, that the 'best' results come from just hitting your target number, when it comes to MAT,RAT, DEF rolls? Because as the roll gets lower, the damage/defence value also decreases?

True, and a 1 is a coup (crit) that translates to your modified target number. 20 is a fumble even if your tar get is 20

Yep. So perhaps a more in detail example here.

Let say you have a MAT of 14.

You roll 16: you miss, no damage.

You roll 12: you hit and inflict 12 points of damage.

You roll 1: You score a Coup and inflict 14 points of damage (your MAT value). ...and if/when Chiokiko introduce the Slaying Dice optional rule, you'll also get to roll another attack roll using the same value (MAT 14).

And we'll cross the target number > 20 bridge when we get to it. :)

Hmm, although, I must admit I wonder how exactly we'll managed that considering how the dice roller works...

Example: MAT 24

Roll 2d20

After the post appears, pick which goes to the CTN 20 and the CTN 4

If the first roll is a 20 = fumble.

If either roll is a 1, pick which target it's applied to

More like "rolls 1d20 twice" because if you roll "2d20", you'll get a result between 2 and 40... :P

But yeah, otherwise, it's more or less what I was expecting might happen... It's going to be a bit annoying to type all of that, but hey, technology still has its restrictions... :P

I sent DS dice conventions PM to this site owner, for what it's worth.

Grendel: you should note on your character sheet that your ranged attack is 15 with the spear :-)

Sounds good, I will do that.

I think 14 may be correct, though I'm probably missing something. My MOB is 8, DEX5, and WB 1 for the spear.Is there another bonus I'm missing?

From one of your talent maybe?

That was it... I have Marksman(+1 RAT) . All fixed now.

May I suggest a separate thread for these excellent maps Kalajel is making? Just so it's easier to get to the most updated version :-)

The blue potions are cooldown potions, there were 4 of those right? If so I guess it means both Mages gets 2 each, even if we don't need them for now...

I was thinking the box of 25 pills be taken by one of the fighters, although, another character with a lot of mobility, like the scout could be another good solution, to sort of become the back-up healer...

As for the super stretchy potion, well, whoever doesn't get anything , I guess... I honestly have no idea what exactly the game mechanics are and how useful it will actually be...

I imagine reaching tall ledges, or reaching through cracks in rocks or some such thing. Though reaching blindly through rocks would probably be a good way to get your hand bitten. Or maybe one could stretch out and attack from distance?

The rest of the party could use the stretchy one as a slingshot :-D Or a trampoline.

Drat, yes, I completely forgot about this potion of levitation... But yeah, Dex is right, this might be good for a warrior, especially if facing a flying enemy.... but on the other hand, it's also good for a scout to get unobstructed line of fire to his target while easily remaining out of reach... Well, me and Dex have our cooldown potions, I'm sure you guys will figure out a way to divide the remaining loot. Feel free to follow or ignore any of my reccomendations. ;)

The potion of shapechanging also lets you change your shape :-) The stretchiness is more of a sideeffect...

Muahahahaha! :-) You will all die!!! DIEEEE!!! At least until I can think of something worse :-D

Well, at least we know where you stand ;)

I am your faithful oldschool DM :-) What do you expect?

Yes indeed. He might need a really good healer later... Better not think about what happens when a character reaches zero Mind...
Mark it on your character sheet and adjust any relevant values. That is also true for anyone else who gets hit.

As I said this is an oldschool game. That means apart from being cliché and tropy it is also deadly. The goal is survival and running away is a very valid strategy. Sometimes the only sound one, too. There is a good reason why character creation only takes 10 minutes.
Up to now nothing much happened... just empty rooms. But a dungeon never is empty and the treasure has to be paid for in blood. And balanced encounters are for wimps. :-D

This is not too bad yet as it is a level 1 introductory dungeon though. Wait until we play classic modules... Then it is just

*** SAVE OR DIE ***

Natural enemy: Zombies :-)

BRAAAAAINS!

I recently catalogued all the known erratas for DS4. I should probably repost them here for your convenience:

P.19: Appraise; "MND+RE" should instead read "MND+IN".

P.19: Arcana Explosion; "MND+RE" should instead read "MND+IN".

P.21: Blood Shield; Should read "The Bloodmage may raise his defense by up to 2 per talent rank if he sacrifices 2 HP per talent rank."

P.23: Delay Death; Should read "If the Necromancer is unconscious when he dies…"

P.29: Manipulator; Should read "He gets a bonus of 1 per talent rank to all mind affecting spells…"

P.33: Staff Binding; Text should say "magic wand" instead of "magic staff".

P.45: Analyzing Magic; "MND+RE" should instead read "MND+IN".

P.48: Arctic Weapon; Should make mention of the spell "Paralyze" and not "Halt".

P.51: Burning Inferno; Should read "Everyone in the inferno receives undefendable damage equal to the check result for IN combat rounds until the spell ends."

P.53: Confusion; The SM line should read "MND" instead of "GEI".

P.56: Embiggen; Has "CO" listed as "CON" instead, it should simply read "CO".

P.61; Invigorate; Should say "Mage’s actual hit points are used."

P.66: Protective Dome; "lon" should instead read "long" and remove the extra "the" so the the sentence instead reads "the dome stays active as long as the Mage keeps up his concentration."

P.72: Summon Demon; "Summoning circles´" in the paragraph just above the table should be bolded, Summoning Circle Table; The lines "More modification to the finished circle" and "SB" should be written in the woodstamp font and greyed out. (Still not sure which is right, the table or the example for the amount of the bonus for putting 13 candles around the circle…)

P.98: Ring of Spells; Should make mention of the spell "Prepare Swap" and not "Changer".

P.101: D3. Creating Magic Wands; Table should read "Magic Wand Cost".

P.103: Sample Creature Stat Block; Should make mention of a "loot table", not a "toot table". Also, add "A # before a loot entry indicates this loot is found inside the creature’s lair."

P.104: Alligator; XP 141.

P.104: Banshee; Only Vulnerable to Magic should make mention of "susceptibilities" not "vulnerabilities", XP 267, FF 29.

P.105: Bear; MR is 7.5 not 8.

P.105: Boar; XP 89.

P.105: Lesser Demon; FF 3.

P.105: Battle Demon; MR is 5.5 not 6.

P. 106: Dragon Whelp; XP 270, FF 20.

P.106: Young Dragon; MR is 10.5 not 12.5, FF 37.

P.106: Mature Dragon; MR is 13.5 not 20, XP 922, FF 64.

P.108: Eagle; FF 3.

P.108: Air Elemental I; XP 58.

P.108: Air Elemental II; XP 82, FF 8.

P.108: Air Elemental III; XP 143, FF 15.

P.109: Fire Elemental I; XP 60, FF 8.

P.109 Fire Elemental II; XP 85, FF 13.

P.109: Fire Elemental III; XP 135, FF 23.

P.110: Water Elemental I; XP 60.

P.110: Water Elemental II; XP 73, FF 8.

P.110: Water Elemental III; XP 123, FF 15.

P.110: Feline Predator; MR is 7.5 not 9, FF 3.

P.111: Gargoyle; Climber is missing the line "May drop on victims, adding BOD to MAT." from its description.

P.111: Ghost; ST is 17, not 1, missing it’s SPC score of 16 in the book, spell name should be "Terrify" not "Terror", XP 241, FF 22.

P.112: Giant; Has AG 0 and DX 3 instead of the other way around, MR 6 not 8, FF 27.

P.112: Giant Lizard; CO is 4 not 14, HP is 218 not 278, DEF is 21 not 27, MR is 10.5 not 11.5, Climber is missing the line "May drop on victims, adding BOD to MAT." from its description.

P.113: Giant Squid; MR is 9 not 10.

P.113: Goblin; Branch/Knife has WB+0, not +4, Smelly Rags have AV+1 not "PA".

P.114: Golem, Clay; ST is 5 not 3, XP 114.

P.114: Golem, Crystal; Spell Icon should be the Targeted Spell one with the value of 9 (12 if we count the SM bonus of Lightning Bolt) in it, XP 120, FF 7.

P.114: Golem, Iron; FF 31.

P.114: Golem, Stone; AG is 2 and DX is 0 instead of the other way around, Missing 2 points of Traits so increase ST to 5 and CO to 6 (CO 6 seems to be supported by DEF value), increase HP to 68 and MAT to 27, XP 167, FF 24.

P.115: Harpy; Missing it’s SPC score of 8 in the spell section, XP 108, FF 6.

P115: Hobgoblin; FF 5.

P.116: Hydra; MR is 9 not 10.

P.116: Lich; HP is 28 not 39, TSC is 13 but would climb to 18 with Burning Inferno and Shadow Lance, XP 151, FF 14.

P.117: Lizard Man; DEF is 12 not 14, XP 69.

P.117: Medusa; HP is 34 not 36, MR is 4 not 7.5, XP 203.

P.117: Minotaur; MR is 4.5 not 5.

P.117: Monster Spider; FF 10.

P.118: Mummy; XP 116, FF 17.

P.118: Nether Wolf; Size is "N" not "S", XP 104.

P120: Rat; MR is 4.5 not 3, XP 24.

P.120: Shade; Age only 1 year per attack, XP 119, FF 10.

P.120: Stranglevine; FF 8.

P.120: Skeleton; XP 65, FF 3 (considering it’s only missing 7 XP, I’m wondering if the skeleton isn’t simply missing Darkvision, which would explain it’s current XP and FF…).

P.122: Tree Warden; AG is 1 not 0, and INI is 2 not 1, MR is 2 not 3.5.

P.123: Troll; MR is 4.5 not 5, FF 15.

P.123: Unicorn; MR is 11.5 not 11, XP 180.

P.124: Vampire Bat; FF 4.

P.124: War Elephant; MAT is 23 not 22, MR is 6 not 6.5.

P.124: Vile Watcher; MR is 4.5 not 3, XP 247, FF 18.

P.125: War Hog; XP 86.

P.125: War Horse; Hoof or Slam is WB+2 not +1.

P.125: Wolf; MAT is 14 not 13, FF 4.

P.125: Zombie; XP 71.

P.143: Cultures; Culture Table, Zasarian, Race column; should say "H".

P.148: Treasure Table D; Civilized Humanoids (Urban); Entry 3; "Piece of kohl" should instead read "Piece of cabbage".

P.151: Treasure Table ET1; Talent; Entry 68 and 79; Entries make mention of Tables "WN" and "Z" respectively while it would be Tables "WM" and "S" instead.

P.151: Treasure Table X; Unique Item Table; Entry 32; It is supposed to be "Magic Wand" and should refer to Table "S" not "Z".

Looking back at the main game thread, shouldn't Grapthor also have taken damage from the ray of thought devouring? I haven't seen any defense check made for him...

I might have overlooked that at the time. Good for him. There was no defense because of being surpised.

OK, the scrolls:

You find 4 Scrolls:
* Halt! This is Paralyze in the English Edition of DS. Healer 2, Wizard 6, Sorcerer 6
* Arrow of Darkness Shadow Arrow - Wizard 6, Sorcerer 2
* Magic Shield - Defensive Shield - Healer 4, Wizard 8, Sorcerer 8
* Levitation - Levitate Healer 7, Wizard 5, Sorcerer 5

I think that the healer should get Paralyze and Defensive Shield, and the Sorcerer should get Levitation and Shadow Arrow, as they will reach these respective casting levels earlier, if they choose to learn the spell rather than cast the scroll.

Sounds reasonable enough.

A dwarf asking an elf to appraise something? Why am I suddenly reminded of a Scottsman putting sugar on his porridge? :P

No job for us on Antiques Roadshow anytime soon

I think we better let Flossi give it a try :) Three barks for valuable.

Hey cool, we have a GP map now! Does that work already? But I really liked kalajel's work. :-)

I don't think so. I hope I can put some more time in rewriting the map feature. I took that task from keleth but I didn't have much time last week. I hope can do that on the weekend.

Here we go! Stome Golem! YEAAAAAHHHHHH!

I guess Farandor is still scratching his chin looking at the painting. Sorry team. My Spears probably wouldn't help much anyway.

Warning We are all dead.

This is what happens if you activate a wizard's anti burglar systems :-D
@Dextolen: This is even more what happens if you peek into the monster manual...

I think we should flee to the outdoors where the scout can levitate (with the potion) to a safe height and attack from above (+1), attack a larger opponent (+2) and aim 5 rounds (+10) to raise his RAT +13. Meanwhile the fighters can keep the golem busy while I pepper from behind and Barekeln heals the warriors.

What did I say about metagaming to hard? I don't really think your character knows how tough or weak this opponent is...

Now would be a good time for you guys to tell us who has that orange potion and who took the remaining levitation potions...

All this metagaming! Grapthor is no tactician. He's gonna smash, yo! But if everyone bugs out he'll cover the retreat before bugging out himself. This is why I love the fact I'm new to this system. I feel like I'm 12 again & just discovered RPG for the first time! :-D

Sorry for the double post here, but I now just read the main game thread. Chocokiko, it is not too late to replace the stone golem with a clay one instead. While I did not metagame and checked it's stat, keep in mind I did an errata recently and corrected a lot of monsters stats, and thus vaguely remembers it. We are going up against a creature with an FF of 20-something, which means we'd need another 3 or 4 levels each to stand a chance against this thing. As it stands now, we're all going to die... I know the original adventure was written with a stone golem in it, but in 3rd edition, stone golems were much milder (heck, there are a few more 1st level adventures in 3rd edition with stone golems in them), not so much in 4th edition. The only solution I can think of for us to get out of this mess is metagaming and involves abusing the ever loving heck out of that orange potion... XD

Are called shots possible in DS? I mean, if I wanted to target a specific part of the anatomy, like break this thing's leg (you could incapacitate with less damage than you'd have to deal to kill it) is that something I can try in this system? Would that be a regular melee attack or should I attempt a Feat of Strength?

He did warn us these things would happen :)

Yeah, I'm for fighting this thing and if we die, then we die. Or we can flee if we realize this foe is beyond us. We'll live to fight another day. In either case, it'll be a good story. Grapthor doesn't know this thing is too much for him so no way he's backing down. After the group takes an ass-kicking then maybe he'll think about running.

So, about those called shots. Possible in DS?

And I just noticed Farandor isn't in the initiative count.

There are not called shots in DS as written. Some of the later talents take that into account somewhat. Increasing your attack value or lowering opponent's defense.

Yep, pretty much. Talents are your "called shots" in DS4...

I still highly encourage chocokiko to make the clay golem swap. Seriously guy, you have no idea what we're up against... Well, I guess we could slowly whittle it down over the course of several days with hit and run raids where we would hide in and camp in the forest? :P

Seriously, we don't have to win every battle to tell a good story and for it to be a fun adventure :-) Fleeing to town, finding our employer and giving him an ass-kicking sounds like fun!

Anyways, looks like chocokiko has gone offline for the day. I'll be heading off too. Catch you guys tomorrow! :-)

Okay, maybe I'm not making myself understood here. I'm not complaining because the encounter is too hard, I'm merely letting chocokiko know he made a conversion error which resulted in an unwinnable encounter. It would be like in a D&D module, replacing the Cornugon which is supposed to guard the room with a Pit Fiend. I checked to make sure, and even in the introductory scenario Lord of the Rats in the book, they changed the stone golem there from 3rd edition to a clay one in 4th; even the people who made the game know not to put a stone golem against a 1st level party...

Listen, if chocokiko wants to give us a super hard encounter which will kill half the party to stay old school, I don't mind, he can simply change the stone golem with a crystal one and accomplish just that; half of us will die and the rest of the party will carry on, and you will hear not a peep from me or Dex. However, with a stone golem, this party will die, and then the next party we roll up to replace this one will die as well, on probably the next one after that as well; the stone golem in 4th edition has simply been beefed up too much.

Listen, chocokiko, maybe you don't know what FFs are or how they work, but I urge you to read up on the Foe Factor and hopefully you'll understand why leaving a stone golem here is a wrong idea before we're stuck all rerolling our 6th character... Yes, dying can be fun, but when the encounter is designed to tpk your players by mistake, this can get frustrating quick. I hope this clarifies a few things.

And sorry for the missunderstandings. I am running the game with very little prepration and apart from the module sheet largely off the top of my head as I am working full time and have a family. I have a little more free time on the weekends.
Sorry I don't always have the book with me or the time to check for all eventualities.

It's okay. We are all human and make mistakes after all. ;)

Like I said, I should have probably explained myself better to begin with, so part of the blame rests on me...

It's all good, Chocokiko! In my book it's a great GM who will admit to a mistake :-)

Kalajel, I didn't mean to argue. I did see your point when you elaborated. I am glad you guys are around to help Chocokiko run things smoothly :-)

Now forgive me, but 1i'm still mot sure I understand combat rules correctly:
Veldebrand attacks with Firebeam (CTN 15 + 2 (Large opponent) = 17) and succeeds by rolling 16. Now the golem is entitled to a Defense roll. I thought the GM would do the Defense roll, but I see that it's up to Dextolen to do that. Okay, how does he know that Golem Defense is 13?

If Grapthor was the one attacking something where in the player's book do I find its defense?

The monsters are on pp.102-125 of the DS4 rulebook. I'm not sure if it was up to Dex to roll the golem's DEF thought; he might have just did it out of reflexes because that's how he did it in his pbp game on the dungeonslayers forum in order to speed things up (he would give us the DEF scores of the monsters so we would not have to wait for him to roll them each time). Perhaps chocokiko will still insist on rolling his monsters' DEF himself...

I suppose we could make the DEF rolls without explicitly knowing the target number, which would remove some of the player knowledge.

I think those old 3rd edition D2Go's need to be revamped for 4E DS or moved to the 3rd edition area. It's not really an error on a GM's part to play an adventure as written.

@Grendelthebrave: That would be a good compromise. Until we meet monsters with a DEF score above 20 which will require 2 rolls...

@Dex: I did started updating those to 4th edition. I was tempted to post them on the DS forum when I'm finished...

Also, we need a multi-quote option on this forum...

Thanks for all the help and the good vibes. I don't mind if you roll the defenses to speed things up. I like that idea. I just didn't see the opportunity to give the defense score yet :-)

Grapthor didn't get a move in the 1st round?

Can Farandor get into this round?

Oops, looks like we jumped over you. I guess you can make your action now as if you have delayed.

How many hp did Barekeln heal me for? Was it 10?

Yes.

Thanks :-)

I'm going to be away until Sunday, if Farandor comes up, feel free to have him chuck his second last spear, then switch to melee. Choko feel free to roll for him. Otherwise he'll follow Rollo around.

Sorry, 3 years of GMing DS and never playing, I'll do better

I'm back, and Ouch Grapthor!

Err...Grapthor sidestepped when he attacked because he's maneuvering his way to attack from the golem's back next. So was to the side when the golem attacked, not in front of it. But it's a trivial point :-) Marked 5pts damage. I'm now down to 10hp. I'm glad Berekeln is close by :-D

And sorry guys, if I had a lock pick I could have a try at the door, though only with a 40% chance. My guess is our casters would have just as good a shot at it with their MND values.

Eh, don't tell me about it; I'm suddenly reminded of my 1st character in a pbp game where the healer was slacking off, attacking instead of healing people... Poor Esteber... XD

We had a healer one time who's first (and only) spell was the bestow defense spell. Some of the other players wanted to kill him. :)

Bestow Defense? Really? XD

I can't blame him for being bored with only 1 spell. It's one of the driving factors behind me giving PCs 2 spells at character creation. It was a crowd pleaser at cons when I demo'd DS, too.

You will have more very soon...

Yeah, definitely a house rule I intend to ste... erm I mean borrow for my own games. :P

Oldschool GMing is HARD!!!

I like helping and I want to give you hints sooooo hard...

MUST...
KEEP...
MOUTH...
SHUT...

Arrrrrgh!

:-D

By the way... The brawny guys don't have to play dumb if they don't like to. Of course that is a player choice but to me the fighters can have clever ideas. To me a low mind stat doesn't mean stupid. To me it is more about not being academic and educated.
Grapthor and Rollo might have the best ideas but they won't be able to put them in fancy words. Maybe they are practical minded :-)
However its just an idea and of course they are you characters and you play them as stupid as you like to...
I just want to say I'll never tell you you're too stupid to have such and such idea.

Do you know the podcast "Critical Hit"? I love it :-) Anyways they have an half orc with Int as dump stat who regularly has the best ideas and even philosophical revelations but it is always hilarious how the player puts those ideas in the words of an uneducated "stupid" brute :-)

I'm not relying on the stats for RP as much as the personality I've created for Grapthor. He can have clever ideas when he puts his mind to it but when he's hungry and cranky and pumped with adrenaline after slugging it out with a golem he's going to want to just smash things hahaha!

This wasn't meant as criticism, I just wanted to put the idea explicitly out there :-)

I'm almost tempted to shout "Farandor, what do you see? Please tell us, don't be a troll!" Imagine the party's surprise when a naked troll does end up opening the door for us just as Dex's character was originally fearing. XD :P

I didn't think you were criticizing :-) I just thought I'd share a bit of Grapthor's personality hehe!
LOL! That would be hilarious!

Quick question as I post, if Farandor changes himself to a paper thin form of himself, and when beyond the door, he wants to 'stand up' while imagining himself as his normal elf form, does that require the MND+INT check to concentrate into, or is the check only for more extreme forms?

Farandor really isn't overly bright. More the frolicking in the forest wood elf type.

I'd say it is for any type of form change it is going to be a roll. But going back to his original form I'll give him a +2 as his body remebers that as the natural form.

To be hones on thet potion there is only one sentence of description that I could find. So everything is GM fiat :-) And I'm going for what makes the best story. So I try to rule in a way that makes the action more exiting or hilarious or both... I am longing for the moment you botch that roll for shape change. :-D Then I'll have wonderful hours of creating the effects of that.
I don't want to make it hard for you as a player but I think either way the rolls go it will be more interesting :-)
And I am well aware Farandor is not the most brainy character...

If I remember correctly I already implied that you are standing up on the other side of the door...

Okay that sounds good. Looking forward to assuming octopus form, with all three spears brought to bear. Just as long as Farandor isn't distracted by something shiny.

Grapthor - It would be a feat of strength = BOD + ST + (Bonus from Crowbar*) - (whatever modifier the door has, probably 4)

*The rulebook doesn't specify, I have usually given +2, but chokokiko may think otherwise.

Thanks! Will wait and see what numbers Cocokiko specifies for this roll :-)

Sounds good to me :-) Roll that.

+2 for using a crowbar does sounds fair to me...

+2 , the generic equipment bonus of all RPGs :)

Crap, I think you'll explode. XD

haha! That's what I thought. Or I'll permanently be a weird troll shape.

LOL! XD

Nice, Farandor will be able to afford an elven bow! And a lock pick. Though Donnic will actually be wayy more set up to take care of locks than Farandor...

Haha! Wishing Donnic were here already I see! He IS the man for the job, you know.

Is that both chests already?

I don't particularly want the shortsword. Only picked it up because chocokiko said if we don't explicitly say we took something then it gets left behind. Don't forget anything! :-D

Yeah, like the levitation potions and pills left from that other room... :P

I definitely took one of the levitation potions, if no one grabbed the pills Farandor can grab them on the way out.

We go back the way we came and the lab has been cleared. The other art's gone too. There is graffiti on the wall: DONNIC WAS HERE :-D

xD that would be perfect!

lol XD

Well, it would certainly be a good and original way to introduce his character. :P

"Some bloke told me you lot were taking too much time. Paid me triple to get the paintings. I don't know who wrote that on the wall..."

+1

I am taking a vacation day and spending it outdoors with my wife, so assume that Veldebrand assists in getting all our loot back to town and sealing the deal with our art lover. If we want to talk to a farmer to rent an ox cart to get the heavy stuff home, he likes that idea too.

I prefer the warhammer so the sword is useless to me unless it turns out to be a +3 weapon or something (haha not likely). Only picked it up so nothing gets left behind. If you want, and to be fair, we can roll dice for it (higher roll gets the armor) :-) Oh damn, there are no dice rolls on this thread. We can do it in-game.

And yeah there's still Barekeln's sense magic on the unidentified items.

LOL! Well played, Veldebrand!

I had already agreed to leave him the ring of chain lightning; my role is healer and protector after all. :P

Yeah I remember. Still, Dextolen's RP of Veldebrand being all sneaky and a little selfish (consistent with the character's personality) got a good laugh out of me :-D

Have we explored the whole place? I think we had a choice of N or S doors and we went north into the room with the golem.

The map looks like we've been everywhere.

Unless we missed a secret door somewhere, but given the layout of the map, I doubt it...

I don't see anyone "not letting" you do the sense magic, dude. To me, you did do it and we are all just still waiting for chocokiko to give us the results. Meanwhile, the action has moved on. But we're still waiting for those results, chocokiko :-)

Grapthor is also still waiting for Rollo's 2d6 roll to see who gets the armor.

Sorry I was on a surprise trip for the weekend...

Hope it was a good surprise!

OK, back at it!

Since we've found our first magic armor, and there might be a chance the weapon is magical as well (or at the very least, we will find some for sure in the future), I thought I might post here some rules about magic items in DS4 (so you guys can just consult this post from now on...):

Magic armor: Each "+", in addition of increasing the AV value, reduces initiative penalty by 1 (if any, down to 0), and MR penalty by 0.5 meters (if any, down to 0).

Magic weapon: Each "+", in addition of increasing the WB value, increases initiative by 1 and reduces opponent's defense by 1.

No AV boost for armour eh?

Yes it is +1 :-) Normal AV +1

or is it not?

Yes, increase the AV by the +, reduce the MR penalty by .05 (if any).

Yeah, sorry, I should have mentioned that those are in addition to the increase of the AV/WB values... I'll go ahead and edit my last post...
Huh? There is on 0.5 in INI Dex...

Edit: Holy crap, that Ring of Spellchanger give me +10 to spellchanging checks! Did it did that in 3.5 as well? that seems oddly powerful for a 1st level treasure...

Edit 2: I checked, it did so but for 1 combat (per day, I assume) only. No such limitations in 4th edition since it grants the talent Spellchanger +V.

Crap, meant MR.

Clarification: Is that even if the INI penalty comes from (in Grapthor's case) wielding a warhammer? Or does it only mean that if this type of armor would normally penalize INI then the enhancement cancels it?

Thanks!

The treasure in the old D2G is huge. But you will soon need it. I'll run one more D2G and then I'll send you into Castle Amber. I know that will be huge but I have been wanting to run that for years... So I'll just start and see how it goes.
You will need any straw to grab on there... It is pure oldschool save or die :-)

Can someone take inventory in-game just to be clear we didn't leave anything and to determine who's carrying what? I'd do it myself if it wasn't out of character for Grapthor :-D

By reading the rules, they only say "initiative penalty" without elaborating on it. So I assume it's any and all initiative penalties. Perhaps Dex, who seems to know the rules better than I do can correct me here if I'm wrong (as in, what does the original German edition has to say about this?)...

Dex reads German? That would be ubercool :-D

@Dextolen: Sprichst Du Deutsch? Ich würde mich freuen nicht alleine zu sein :-)

BTW: the german version doesn't elaborate either. But it would feel weird to me if the magic armor would affect more than itself.
I think I would rule that it only affects the penalties of the armor itself. I think this is a measure of the armor being magically light.

Magical Weapon Bonus - this bonus is added to the WB and the Initiative and deducted from the opponent’s Defense on a successful
attack.

Magical Armor Bonus: this bonus is a magic bonus that is added to the AV (without any effects on Spell Casting/Targeted Spell Casting), while the normal deductions from Initiative and movement are reduced by 1 per bonus or 0.5 m (at best nullifying them).

Pg 96 of engish rules

@all: How would you feel about me wrapping the adventure up and fast forward a bit? Or do you want to roleplay to the bitter end?

Go for it! Ready to jump into the next one.

Two more thumbs up for that to make a majority and the fast forwarding starts :-)

The way I am reading it, it makes more sense that the armor would only affect INI properties of the armor itself. So unless Chocokiko tells me otherwise I am leaving my INI penalty untouched.

Chocokiko, I wouldn't mind a fast-forward. As long as we agree that we've gotten all the loot down to the last healing pill :-D

That's correct, Jabes

Thumbs up! Sorry, missed that message!

That's up to you. Read through the posts and look who has what. It is also not a big deal if there is something you don't find or forget. I will make sure there is enough. These D2G are full of loot. Don't worry if you don't get something.

Also please go through the equipment lists. You can buy everything available in small cities between adventures.

Feel free to apply it that way, but the main problem here it that the only armor with an INI penalty is the metal helmet, so this perk of magic armor will be sort of useless...
It would be so much more useful if we could see each other's character sheets, might make the whole thing easier and faster that way...

Edit: yep, I'm also in favor of wrapping this up. So , what's the adventuring reward? :D

You only have to put them in the library...

Farandor is in the library. All I have that's special is one of the levitation potions and I had written the troll painting, but we're tag-teaming that now so I'll edit that out.

So I just wrapped up the adventure. You can go shopping and drinking now. And you can all level up. That includes Donnic. He doesn't recieve any new money or stuff but I want to keep the group at the same level.
I will start the new adventure on the weekend I think.

I also locked the game thread :-) The city life will be off stage and we'll start with you getting on the road again...

So how did you like it?

BTW: Getting Grapthor's intelligence back will be the hook for the next adventure :-) I hope you are all willing to help him out :-)

It was a good opportunity for people to roleplay and also for the newer folks to try DS rules. I loved the tentacle brain in a jar, but the adventure was shy on encounters (not your fault!)

Loads of fun! Would've loved more encounters but yeah it's a pre-packaged adventure so definitely not Chocokiko's fault. Like I said in the beginning I love the old-school feel of this game system. I feel like I'm 12 again, discovering RPG for the very first time. Looking forward to the next adventure! Yeah, help poor Grapthor out hehe!

That's great Jabes, same way I felt about DS the first time too

Wonderful :-) Can't wait for your shopping lists and requests...

Sent - Should be no surprises!

I had a great time, looking forward to trying to get poor Farandor killed in subsequent adventures :)

I agree with you Jabes and Dex, and I've had a huge hankering for old school deadly games lately.

EDIT:
I don't suppose there's any Elven villages nearby, that a certain spry young elf could prance over to?

Also Donnic: You're focusing on stealthy type things right? Just so we don't necessarily double down on the same talents

While in town, Veldebrand buys Detect Magic and Identify Magic spells to add to his spellbook. No longer will we pay for failed identifies!

.

Does one have to spend PP & TP or can one save them up?

You can save them.

Grapthor buys:
*5 days rations = 25 SP
*weapon paste = 5 SP
*rope (10m) = 1 GP
*a wineskin = same as a waterskin, I guess (5 SP)?
*and 5 liters of ale to fill it = ??

Now that I've upgraded can I sell my leather armor at market value (4 GP)?

I agree, I was surprised there were only 2 monsters, which makes me thing we missed a few secret rooms with more monsters in them... I haven't quite gotten a personality down yet for Barekeln, mostly because I made him to fill up a need in the party. Give me a bit more time, and I'll come up with something interesting. :P

The waterskins usually are 1 liter. 5 liters would be a small keg.
I'd say you can sell stuff at half price.

The book says 5 liters. Has that been errata'd or something? :-)

hmm ok i didn't look it up but 5 liters seems pretty large to me... if the book says so its ok

I actually agree, that does seem like a lot. You wanna houserule it? It should be cheaper though if it's smaller than 5L :-D

Don't complain about prices when you have tons of money. I might feel compelled to lighten your purse some other way ;-)

I'm going to echo this sentiment, but for dwarven settlements; might decide what weapon I'll end up buying...

Dwarven settlements eh? I'd be interested in that too. But I don't have enough money yet for a Dwarven Axe. What else would we find there that we couldn't elsewhere?

I'd say you will pass elven and dwarven settlements in your off stage travel time. You can have your weapons :-)

Nice! That might completely change my order... Though maybe not. A few nights of ale and 'company' will cost a few coins. BTW I love that 'company' is something that is for sale at the taverns :D

You may pay a suitable amout for that and effectively get the bragging rights :-)

• Sold the wooden shield to buy leather vambrace and greaves instead.
• Bought a dwarven axe for melee.
• Bought a second spear to chuck at enemies far away.
• Bought the Enchant Weapon spell.
• Bought the Rout Undead spell.

What was our share of GP from the chest, again?

I'd quite forgotten about that! I just checked: it's 82gp. Turns out I can afford a Dwarven Axe! :-)

Actually, the Dwarven Axe has great stats but a warhammer is more Grapthor's style. Chocokiko, would you agree to houserule a Dwarven Warhammer? If yes, what stats?

It was 82, yes.

My take on the Dwarven Warhammer

Dwarven Warhammer (2h) WB+3, Initiative -2, Opponent's Defense -1; Avail: D, Price: 40gp

I might steal that for my own homebrews one of these days. :D

Anyone want to go in on a pony? Or would that just get eaten, being left outside of the first dungeon? I kind of want to load up on bear traps, that seems like a fun way to mess up some monsters.

A donkey and a two wheeled cart comes to 23gp, I'd chip in.

Ahh, looked over to see the regular animals, I was wondering why there wasn't a 'mule' available. That's cool though, even just the two of us paying in, I'll go 12, you can go 11. Unless anyone else wants to throw in?

I was gonna say Opponent Def -2 hehe. Whaddya say, Chocokiko? :-D

I'll chip in for the donkey+cart.

Adding to my shopping list:
Heavy Crossbow = 15gp
Metal Helmet = 6gp
3 more doses Weapon Paste = 15sp
Lantern oil = 5cp

Then you'd have the exact same stats as the dwarven axe for 20 GP cheaper...

I can also chip in. How much is left to contribute?

Ah. You're right. Well, exactly as Dextolen suggested then :-)

23 gp + 1gp for bit/bridle, = 6 each

I calculated based on the axe vs. the dwarven axe and the hammer vs. the warhammer

Alright, I'm pitching my 6 GP then.

Donkey's name = Trail Mix

You can have your dwarven warhammer with dextolen's stats :-)
BTW: Rollo has a donkey now, too. With a packsaddle...

I shall call him Buttstallion!

Pro tipp: Dont make an ass out of yourself when you just bought one. Hrhrhrhrhrhr :-D

@all: I just cleaned up the houserules thread. Sorry, but I deleted all but the first post. We can discuss here or in the Suggestions thread.
Please help me compile all houserules so far.

Only if the spell works :-)

The next adventure will be more combat heavy. I intentionally started light. To the seasones playes the Runes of Oblivion migt be a bit boring but to a (quite) fresh GM and new players I think it is a good tutorial.

I moved the game thread to a subforum "Adventures past". On the weekend I will move the metagame and maps thread, too.
I'll start new threads for the new adventure.

Nice work on the houserules thread

Ok, updated my equipment list and subtracted the money, including my 6gp share for ole' Trail Mix & his cart. Grapthor buys everyone a round of ale, though Veldebrand will probably decline, preferring some fancy-ass wine, so Grapthor will drink his share :-D

Veldebrand after cashing in

Anything else I need to houserule?

I have quite a few homebrewed talents, armors, weapons, and spells I still need to playtest if you,re ever interested. :P

Edit: Also, concerning the Slayer Points, they're only for the player characters, not monsters, so you won't have to do any accounting. Yes, they may seem one-sided, but they're here to counter how deadly combat in DS4 can be (especially when introducing the Slaying Dice).

Classic

Ladies and Gentleladies...

Meet Trail Mix and Asnar :-)

No Buttstallion... T_T

I like trailmix's sweet dreads

That is a real breed of donkeys called Poitou donkeys that almost got extinct.
I think they really look cool and they are big :-) I like donkeys :-)