General Chat

We can use this thread to discuss things that may not be related to this game in particular.

Hey Rezart, I know you applied before we had a place to discuss what you wanted from this game. Thanks for your enthusiasm.

So, what are you looking for from this?
I noticed that you are down for teaching PbtA, but don't want to presume. Are you wanting to be a spare body to help other newbies, or are you wanting the newbie experience yourself? Both are fine, but if you are wanting an introduction to how GP or PbP work, I have just done bowlofspinach's Introduction to Gamersplane and PBP and can highly recommend it. I do not plan to duplicate their work here, but will cover just enough GP specific stuff to get new players going.

I was looking to play, but am more than willing to be an extra resource/GM if required.

The intent here is for new players to get to try out the system, and for this game to be available whenever a new player arrive.

If you are willing to be a 'helpful player' and support those new players, then that is very useful.
At times when we don't have new players, the support players can play as normal, with the caveat that we will focus on any new players as they arrive. Anything the old-hands do should not put the world into a state where new players can not drop in and get going fast.

Sure, I'm fine with that. I'll hold off doing anything until new players show up.

... Or until we have a group of experienced support players and just want to do a little world-building in quest form. :)

Welcome OkumHart.

I see you have applied for the other games in this series as well. Do you have a preference for which to handle first? All at once can be overwhelming. :)
This one is the only one with another player (so far) and also the only one with anywhere to chat. When interest for the other ones surfaces, I will get their forums set up, so you don't have to do 'fantasy' if you would prefer something else.

No this is fine, I've played mostly fantasy so it's what I am most familiar with. I also am looking forward to playing, learning, and enjoying a good game.

Hi Rezart, I'm Okum a brand new PbP player. Looking forward to gaming with you.

Hey theatreofcomets. Cool username. :)
What are you hoping to get from this game?

Should we roll stats here?

When we are ready I will probably start a Character Creation thread. We can then chat about what we want to play and party composition there. I will probably do that tomorrow once everyone has checked in.

We should have enough players to start if everyone here is ready.

Sounds good

The world is open for us to define as we play. Does anyone have any ideas about a quest for us to go on? We just need a start.
If not, I can put up a few ideas on a Job Board and characters can pick which to do after we have done character creation.

The more I know about the sorts of things that interest you all, the more I can make quests and scenarios that we want to go on.

Hi Okum! Same here!

I have created a thread for Character Creation.
For now we will stick to the rules roll for stats, in order (though I have thoughts on the original, historical meaning of that phrase:).
If you simply can not see yourself playing the stats you rolled we can talk about allowing a reroll, on a case-by-case basis.

Part of the character creation process is also defining the world. Ask questions, make suggestions. Nothing much exists yet so we are free to say whatever we want. None of you have explored very far (if at all) from where we start.

Also add any rumors you or your characters may have heard. Some of them might turn out to be true. I will be listening as you create your characters and taking notes of anything interesting sounding to add it to the world.

As always. If you have any question about how things work, ask.

For character creation, under skills it should probably say choose two skills, not one. Normally you choose only one skill because your class gives you the other one (or two, in the case of Cleric), but if you are going with create your own class as the default, they'd need to choose both their skills.

Mutter mutter.. know it all, calling out the GM's mistakes... :)

Quite right. Corrected in the rules now. Thanks.
Please let me know if I missed anything else.

So, here's another 'lesson' for those new to PbP: Sometimes people will be unable to respond for a while. To demonstrate this, I will be gone for some hours.

Hey there, just keen to get some experience playing PBTA games, and actually just some more experience role-playing.

I had an idea for a quest, a kind of mash up of heist films, Jack Vance and Karl Marx - let me know if it's too much backstory:
- characters are a mix of skilled misfits from different towns who have all recently been kicked off their traditional lands by lords enclosing them to run sheep on, and now need to find a way to avoid starvation
- begging gets punished by branding for a first offence, imprisonment in a workhouse for a second offence, and death for the third; the punishment for theft is worse
- one of us has been caught stealing from a local merchant, who says she won't turn them over to the authorities if they steal her something valuable from a local wizard, who lives in a castle overlooking the town. they've persuaded the others to help
- that wizard has just been seen going for a walk
- the group is at the castle gates

Yikes! Vance and Marx? That is some mash! :)
Remember you are 'fresh faced' adventures, so I am not sure about the expert team of skilled individuals a traditional 'heist' calls for.
Maybe you could become such a crew eventually. We can try smaller scale 'heists' (often called 'dungeon crawls':) at the start, though and save some for this for later?

Remember this is a game for new players. The intent is for anyone new to GP (or new to the game system) to be able to drop into this game and pick it up easily. We are the first, so we get to define a lot by our choices and actions, but we still want to keep the world generic and simple enough for the new players who join later.

The reliable players might be called upon to make new characters for the new players to play with (I will deal with per-player limits when that comes up). This is voluntary, so only if you feel comfortable possibly playing more than one character in separate threads/adventures.

WoDu can also be a bit more deadly than (recent) DnD or DW. Maybe don't get too attached to your character ideas, they may perish --hopefully spectacularly, but 'memorably' may have to do.
Oops. This bit failed to carry over from the recruitment thread so I added it to the Character and World Creation thread.
A 'wizard' is likely to be walking towards a stake (not a steak). Magic is frowned upon, it uses demons and spirits and quicksilver, and corrupts the user. Most 'wizards' people meet are 'the bad guy'.
If you want to do magic, be prepared to be treated with suspicion or worse.

True! I guess they're connected by their interest in anthropology? :)
Yeah good flag - I originally wrote 'ragtag bunch of misfits', but then looked at the character types in the rules, who all seemed pretty skilled, so thought I should upgrade that. But it sounds like I misread the intent of the rules?

Anyway, more than happy to go with another idea, given I don't really know what I'm doing! :)

Well theatreofcomets it's sounds like a great start, something I'd be interested in playing through

Hi theatreofcomets!

Although we are basically just bandits with ambition at this point, waiting for a wizard to leave and then stealing from them is a classic.

Cheers! Happy to go with something else that suits the WoDu premise better though, if that's what folks would prefer.

It is a bit 'big' for the start, but it could be what the team is work towards becoming.

It is not so much a WoDu thing as a 'we need to keep the world small and simple and manageable for other new players when they arrive'. This is an ongoing effort, we want to provide a place for new players at all times, and having a group off on 'storming the castle walls' type adventures can break the world. If the group wants that, we can always spin off a game for them in a world of their own where they can break things to their heart's content.
Jobs in this game should be lower impact and cause smaller ripples. We could definitely break into the castle and steal something, or even have to break into a distant (rumored) wizards tower to retrieve an item, though.

We can have a war be happening nearby, you could run off and join the army, then storm (or defend) those castle walls and get into mischief over there. That would provide some alternate content for anyone who wants it. If we are interested let me know.

Well I would be interested in taking a swing at a bunch of John's and seeing what a fighter can do.

Not sure what "John's" are, but I am sure there will be people to fight no matter what jobs you guys take on --it is a fantasy game, after all. :)

Are you saying you want to run off to the war? Join that army? Get stuck in a town under siege? Are you a soldier?
Or just stumble across armies going at it and see what opportunities you can find?

Remember, this game might get big enough that we are not one party anymore. So don't worry if one player wants to do something the others are not interested in. Speak up and we can wait till we find other like-minded players then launch into special operations.

John Doe's
Maybe a wandering knight kinda deal?

Maybe 'knight' is overrating your importance a bit at Level 1 :)
Remember: From the initial thread:

Of the jobs on the board, like Rezart/Rook I'm most interested in the caravan guard and dungeon crawl ones.

@Okumheart, would either of those appeal to your fighter?

Got it. I second Rook's thoughts on Carvan guard.

Yes

Which one is the 'dungeon crawl' again?
Oh, yes, the heirloom recovery? I had not thought of it as dungeon crawl, but it is now.

Do you wan to combine them? That would have the caravan's destination be the 'Snow Mountain' as well. You would do the one and then the other in succession. If you are not interested in that then they will be in different locations.

Yep, combining them sounds good!

Makes sense to me!

OK. I will start by getting you signed up as caravan guards.
Do you want to have time in town to explore and RP a bit first, or do you want the caravan to be leaving pretty soon?
There will be time on the road for socialising with your fellow guards.

Sounds good to me.

Welcome DJ_WAFFLES.

We did not hear from you in the 'recruitment' thread. Be sure to take a look there to understand what we are trying to do in this game.

Tell us a little about yourself so we can better serve your needs.

What are you wanting to get from this?

What past experience do you have? With RPGs, with PbtA, with PbP, whatever. This is a place of learning, so it is fine if you have no experience at all, or if you just want to work on one particular thing.

Let us know and we can try help.

Welcome LizzyPinkHood.

Tell us a bit about yourself and what you want to get from this game.

Take a look at the Rules page if you have not read the WoDu PDF (it is basically a duplicate). Have you read or played any other PbtA games?

When you are ready we can discuss characters in the Character Creation thread.

Hello, GM and everyone ^_^
Um, well, I had very little experience playing PbTA system games, and I don't always understand clearly things like "+1 forward" and such, but I do like narrative occasionally more over heavy mechanics, as long as they are still present.

My more adequate experiences were primarily systemless PbP games and verbal games with few mechanical supports like dice rolls without dedicated system, but I had also played D&D 4e and 5e a bit, I am familiar with many common 'big' titles like GURPS and the others.

From the game I usually expect fun time gained from mutual enjoyment of the story and interactions: I suppose I lean more towards adventuring and combat parts of game triad (adventures/roleplay/combat), but a great and dramatic scene would be just as welcome~
As a player I could offer bringing perhaps interesting characters that are not just interested in defeating every obstacle they meet, as well as my personal experience which might happen to be useful at some point.
Perhaps the one big flaw I can think of that I possess as a player is that I prefer less challenging and more successful heroic scenarios, hence why I do not usually play grim dark settings, but I am sure this won't come up in a way that would seriously halt or ruin the game.

This simplified PbtA game does not have rules for +1 Forward, but it may be a reward in some situations. The GM will tell you how if it comes up.

Just because this game does not have the mechanic does not mean that you can not still ask about how it works in other games. If you have any questions about PbP or PbtA or anything, we can try to explain. Just tell us which game and which rule is unclear and we can look at it.

+1 Forward just means that the next time you roll the dice (or possibly only the next time you roll a particular move or under particular conditions (the GM will tell you the specifics)) you add an extra 1 to whatever you roll.
+1 Ongoing is similar but you keep adding the +1 to your rolls for as long as the rule says (Ongoing will always have a end clause like "take +1 Ongoing until you get out of the house" or "... while interacting with this NPC"). Ongoing usually states which moves/roll it applies to. You just follow the rules and do what they say for you to do.
The mechanics of this game are light, and tend not to impose too much on the narrative. We have not rolled a lot of dice so far. Though we are probably going to have a fair bit of dice soon, it is looking like an ambush. :)
World of Dungeons is less 'heroic' than vanilla Dungeon World (and if there is enough interest we can always start a Dungeon World game as well, though I prefer WoDu or AW:Fallen Empires for fantasy). You start out poor ('fresh-faced') and have to work for money to level up, and you don't ever have a lot of 'health', so death is a real possibility if you get into fights (fighting is always a bad idea), and in this game particularly your characters are not going to be 'saving the world' or even making that much of an impact (so that other players can join later and not have to deal with your epic fallout). But this is 'Swords and Sorcery' not 'grim dark'.

Oki, I shall proceed to character creation thread and see if my idea could still fit - it might appear potentially over the top in some aspects, but nothing that couldn't be solved I am confident ^_^

Hey sorry I've been quiet these last few days - I'm finding that as I start to prep and GM games I have less bandwidth for playing them myself, annoyingly. I'll catch up and weigh in.

Yeah. Prepping can really fill the brain with that one thing and make it hard to give other stuff attention.

I try to only have a few games in the prep and setup stage at any time. Once the games get going they are much easier, and take up less bandwidth.

Hey vagueGM, would you be averse to me trying to find a few more players? Currently our recruitment rate is slightly lower than the attrition rate; I was thinking of posting about this game in an Australian RPG Discord devoted to less-mainstream games, and in the Dungeon World Discord. No worries if you'd rather I didn't, though.

Sure. If you want to invite them over to GamersPlane they would be welcome.

Remember the target audience for this game, though. If they come to site, they might not want this particular game, and we can look at making something more permanent, if you want.

Other one, I believe.

We are still waiting to see what Rook got from his looting and how the other guards respond to his sharing.

Is there anything you want to do next?

We already figured out what Rook got though, a small amount of coins and valuables, of which his share was 40 copper, and then maybe that much more in cheap weapons if we can sell them.

PS: Apropos of this, I am going to be out of contact this next week, travelling for thanksgiving. I will be back next week though.

Is there a way here to see just new posts? I can see when a thread has new posts, but this scrolling up and trying to remember where I left off is a drag. Is subscribing to each thread a better way to go?

The system tries to keep track of the last post you read. We are working on making it more uniform.

If you click on a link on home page, it will take you straight to the new posts, based off of what you last read (it does not know if you actually 'read' the posts, it only knows that you loaded them into your browser).
In the searches, you need to click on the orange 'dice' icon or the little red 'page' icon to have it take you to the correct place, the main (text) link still leads to the first post (but this is a bug).

Let us know if that works for you, else we can look for more solutions.
Subscribing to a thread or forum just makes the system send you an email (with a link) when there is activity. It helps you know that you need to come check, but does not help with the rest.

Clicking the die solves it, thanks.

Just waiting at this point to see where Cook will show up.

Hey vagueGM, after seeing a few of the Welcome threads, I was wondering if perhaps the sign-up page could do with a refresh to add a little more context about the game and ease new players' onboarding?

The specific things I was thinking were
- the para starting 'The world has broken' should be tweaked or replaced to make clearer the low-key adventure vibe
- add a couple of sentences, either there or under character creation, about how powerful the characters are at start, i.e. something like "You are fresh-faced, inexperienced adventurers, not yet as grand as a standard level 1 D&D character. However you are still skilled, and probably armed - this is also not an OSR-stlye 'funnel' game where characters are average villagers who get killed off to see who will survive. You're between those two, skilled but inexperienced."
- a para listing the current party members, their classes and (brief) backgrounds - something like the party list in the wiki but minus the skills & abilities lines
- a short para about the current state of play (like the one you just put in the wiki)

That way players can come in knowing a little more about the tone of the game and roughly what level to pitch their character ideas at.

..oh also letting people know they can subscribe to the forum and it's the best way to make sure they get notified when things change

..and the thing about magic being shunned. That detail is not in the RAW (which players are pointed at on the sign-up page and which therefore sets their assumptions about the game), so it's a useful thing for new players to know about the game world before they offer their ideas.

Yes, indeed. I will rework those pages to clarify those points. The original text was tossed together in response to a demand for such games (and players signed up almost before the game was posted:), and things have taken firmer shape since then, a shape which is not really reflected in the text.

Your suggestions seem about right, I may call on you to help with the exact wording.

Cool, yeah really happy to help with drafting etc

Hey vagueGM, there's two more people interested in this game. Given our current party size, should I send them the link to the game page, or best if I just direct them to GP instead?

We currently only have four or five characters, so taking on another two is not impossible. Let them know about the numbers and the nature of the game and tell them that they are welcome to join if they want, we will find space.

But also tell them about the site, there are many more options available that they can look at: instead of this one, in addition to this one, or after this one. We have an open-door policy, and this game is easy to drop out of.

Cool, will do!

theatreofcomets: I added a note about Subscribing and emails to the Help! thread.

Thoughts and feedback welcome.

Hi everyone :)
Looks like I've been accepted to join the ranks.

A little info about me: I've been Roleplaying for many years now. Mostly D&D and Warhammer FRP. 2 years ago I started GMing a Dungeon World campaign with some friends, that's been a lot of fun and I love the PbtA system so far.
I'm excited to try WoDu and see how that plays out.

I'm new to using PbP so please bare with me on that end :D

If you wanna ask me anything, feel free.

Hey great to have you with us! I'm mikeyp on Discord, we met there :)

Did you guys discuss any rules concerning swearing and cursing IC? I did a quick search but couldn't find anything.
I found myself changing a "f*ck" into a "darn" at some point. Not that I mind keeping it PG, but just wondering if anyone would take offense :)

I tend not to use such language (very much, if at all), and the site does have a general policy of 'no heavy cursing'.

Keeping it PG is a safe bet.

Will do :)

A bit of a heads-up but I'm thinking I might be a little busy for this December - I'll try to catch up if something happens but boy it's a packed period.

OK, thanks for letting us know.

We will fade your character into the background (everyone just don't mention them nor call upon them:) and not wait for you.

Whenever you have time, jump in and update what Alycine is/was doing and we will work with it, but don't stress about every detail, just give us as much as you want.

Got a general WoDu question.
How do you rule this? Does this mean that a character who is purely out for adventure and not so much the loot would have a disadvantage compared to other party members? Or is it more of a party wide thing?

If you find a treasure and say "You can have this treasure, John" who gets the xp?

Also, does it only count in dungeons? Like what if a person found a coin on the ground while walking to the dungeon? :P

Firstly: Don't bargain on leveling up. That is not really the intent of the game.

Like most PbtA games (actually like most games that are not DnD descended) there is no need to keep characters at equitable levels. Most PbtA games even have and Advanced Advancement where you retire your current character and start a new one, at 'level one'. So we are not looking for balance in that way.

However we will try to be 'fair'. If someone feel hard-done-by, we can arrange for them to get a windfall to bring them up to equal-standing. (Shout in a PM if you think this is needed).

But, remember that the leveling system is complicated. This is an advantage of 'XP for Gold', we can do much more with it:
• It does matter how you get the money: picking it up in the street (even if it was in pocket in the street) is as good as getting it from a dragon's hoard. Silver is, by definition, fungible.
• Your character sheet is both prescriptive and descriptive. Using XP to buy a Skill or Ability adds it to your sheet and means you get it in the fiction (tell us how); but if you gain a Skill or Ability (or Item) in the fiction you get to add it to your sheet. (But it is less secure.)
• Note the phrase: 'coin that you loot from the dungeon'. That is a bit prosaic --since we are not really 'dungeon delving', but it does still mean 'you have to bring it home' before it is counted: probably no leveling up in the field.
• Silver spent while adventuring does not count towards XP, but can still make you stronger --through purchase of items-- or keep you alive. You can also 'throw money at a problem' to safely overcome a threat, maybe through bribes, maybe you simply pay the troll to go away.
• Spending silver on Gear is as important as spending it on XP. You can only spend it once (fundamental part of economics:), so XP, vs Gear, vs bribes and safe lodging is a constant consideration.

Oh yes, I'm totally on board with that :) I was just wondering about the mechanics. I'm also not planning on hoarding all the loot, so no worries there ^.^

Ah so, you have to "spend" the money/valuable items to gain the xp. Just finding it is not enough. Gotcha.

Thanks for explaining!

I find that works out best, I have tried systems used by the likes of Barbarians of Lemuria (and Impulse Drive) where you have to blow all your money before you can level, thus starting with a clean slate each time, that fits the Conan the Barbarian theme (pauper to king each story, but then --mostly-- starting at pauper again for the next) better than it does here. How you 'spend' the coin? That I don't define, you are free to narrate it as you will, it could be paying for training, it could revels, whatever, the fiction up to the player but does not need to be accounted for in detail.

A character can gain power in many ways. 'leveling up' is only one way, buying new gear or hiring retainers does much the same thing to the power level, so I prefer for the silver to be used in a similar manner for all of them.

Ok, I am really sorry, but circumstances in my life has changed somewhat and due to increased commitments at my workplace, I'm afraid it's highly likely that I won't be able to participate any more.

If things manage to change for the better for me, I would be happy to return, but for now I think I'll have to bow out. But rather than crossing my fingers, I just thought I would give the heads-up.

Sorry to hear that Nanoka. Here's hoping things are just 'busy' and not 'unpleasant'.

You are welcome back at any time.

We will just consider Alycine out of the story --as though she never existed. When you come back you can decide if you want to pick her up again or start anew, based on what is happening.

If anyone feels they want to talk about the loss of another player, know you are most welcome to send me a Private Message and we can chat about it.

Hey mates I'm back from holiday but also need to bow out at this point: I've taken too many things on and am not keeping up with everything, so need to drop things from my list.

Thanks so much for having me! It was really good meeting you all and getting to play together. Special thanks to you vagueGM for your patience and generosity. I've learnt an awful lot in this game, and I hope the rest of it goes really well.

I am very sorry to hear that. I really enjoyed playing with you, theatreofcomets.

You are welcome back anytime, if time allows you to return. And don't hesitate to reach out if you need anything.

Thank you, I've enjoyed playing with you too! I'll see how the next while goes. I work in climate change advocacy and we're gearing up for the federal election here in Australia, so there's a bit more pressure than usual; election dates are set by the government of the day here too, and it could be any time in the next few months. But all things pass, so will see how I go.

Darn, that's too bad. Hope you find your way back, theatreofcomets! :)

Posting here because it's off topic from the original thread
I can only ever play solo games in a "journal" format, it's something I picked up from playing "1000 year old vampire" and "Apothecaria". Journaling is the ideal way to play solo games, at least for me, I know some people aren't too keen on writing so much. It worked well enough with Ironsworn, I even made a random table that refers to previous journal entries to help prompt interesting story developments.

Ironsworn's mechanics really turns the story into a difficult, survivalist adventure fighting against great odds, which is something I love about it but I think won't resonate with others seeking a more light-hearted fantasy romp.

I haven't yet tried Starforged though, does it still have that "against-the-odds" sort of style about it?

I sometimes did it in my head (like while driving or such), but still found that putting the effort into proper full descriptions (as though for an audience) helped keep the motivation up. That, however, resulted in the game taking longer, which is its own cause of death.
Hard to say, not all my Ironsworn games were against-the-odds (no any more than regular RPGs with their challenges). I have done city-based intrigue games and exploration games that were not so at all that way (though intrigue is rather dark at times).

Being 'space', I think that Starfoged has a lot more scope for wonder (exploring ancient, high-tech civilisations for instance). It felt a lot like Firefly, so maybe think that level of against-the-odds?

Working in a powerplant, I'm loving the fact that you included the physics part.
(Though I guess that if a wet object explodes, not all of the water will become steam, most of it will probably fly away.)
Still, nice detail!

There has to be enough energy to convert the water, and much of that energy would be absorbed by the reaction, so even that which does not fly away would dampen the explosion.

If, however there is enough energy to turn it all to steam you have just added more fuel to the explosion. Makes it safer up to the point where it suddenly makes it worse. :)

Just want to point out that doing the "pageSize=1000 and ctrl-f" trick that vagueGM once suggested makes it a lot easier to find things in long threads. In case anyone wants to weave old plot-points from the previous threads into the current story. I'm still a greenhorn when it comes to forum websites so I thought that was a clever trick. Example of how to do it: https://gamersplane.com/forums/thread/23545/?pageSize=10000

The easiest way to get to the `?pageSize=1000` is to click on the [5 of 5] box ('5' in the case of this thread, right now) at the top and 'bottom' of a page, just left of `<< first <`. That loads the whole thread.

Quick question about thoughts. It's fine to post a character's thoughts, right? I know that in some RP-standards it's considered a bad thing because nobody could ever hear* your thoughts and that it could lead to "meta-gaming" by other players. But I believe we're trying to add them so other players can play into them, right?
Asking because I've done it a few times already ;)

*Unless magic is involved...

Absolutely. It is very useful to know what PCs are thinking.

A common format is to to use italics in the form of: I wonder if she is going to come over and speak to me. Bob thinks nervously, unsure if he would want that or not. (Then 'she' can know that there is interest and move the fiction along appropriately).

Whether you use italics or not, make sure you are explicit that it is their thoughts.
We can deal with that if it comes up. I have only ever seen it be a problem when other players missed that it was a thought and responded out loud, so be clear in the text.

Just to let you all know I have decided to leave this game as I have found two DnD adventures to join and playing this as well was too confusing. I have enjoyed playing with yuo good luck on your adventures

You are welcome back if you ever want to explore something other than DnD. Though, playing two similarish 'fantasy' games can be a lot more confusing than playing DnD and then something completely different (Star Trek, or Monster of the Week, or Escape From Dino Island, or something, for instance), it can be easier to keep the rules differences separate when they don't tell the same type of story.

Good luck Stampman. See you around on GP :)

Adios Stampman!

Two puns in a single line? I can only respect such bold actions :D

Just one pun, and they were not bolded.

It might just be me, but I feel like the story is kinda grinding to a halt. Maybe it's cause people don't have the time (which is totally understandable) or cause some of us are waiting for others to post before they make their move?
Is anyone else getting that idea?

Maybe it would be better if we say that vagueGM can just go ahead and progress the story after x amount of time or something like that. What do you all think?

Indeed, it has been a well-more than a day. I will move things along now.

I'm still in, but yeah I kind of feel stuck (literally at this point in the story). It's hard for me to do a post that is more than 'I continue to wait', so that's why I've been a bit quiet. It does feel like we are progressing slower as the group increases in size, but I'm not sure how to solve that problem.

Yeah, sorry about that. I was hoping for some more engagement with the trap and some teamwork... or for anyone to try anything. But I could have given more options?

---

The more people there are the more waiting there is. I try to move things along more when one player is slow, if there are only two players we don't tend to skip anyone, but with five we can't keep waiting each time.

---

Rook can try to use ranged attacks (till the fight comes to him) which seems in character; or can try to get off the trap, maybe by wedging it, or leaving something of equal weight (presumably he did not put all hist weight on it before his reflexes allowed him to stop, so there may be something in his pack he can use).

Both attacking while balancing on the trap, and getting free of the trap would be risky and require a roll, but the trap may also be rendered moot if others are allowed to blunder around and set it off for real.

I’m still in, but I agree this week the story has been dragging. This is my first PBP game so I don’t know what pace is typical, but this seems slower than it was a couple of weeks ago. That’s why I posted that my character continued to do what he had been doing. I wasn’t sure what to do since the skeleton hadn’t yet gotten up or fought back, and it wasn’t clear how much time had elapsed in game, but I felt like I had to post something.

I’m going to attempt to move things forward by having Deoring notice and engage with Roald.

This seems pretty typical. It fluctuates based on player availability. The more players there are the more it has to fluctuate since there are more chances for someone to get slowed.

The types of situations can make a big difference to the pace. I was encouraged by the fast pace and subsequently laid out a complex interconnected scenario, which stumbled with the suddenly slowed pace (and the slowed pace may be the result of the complex scenario which gave the players pause:).
There is huge benefit to such posts. It lets us know that the player is still engaged, it prompts us to move things along, and it shows that the situation is still the way we last saw it (that the player had not meant that to be a fleeting description).

I really like seeing such aspects of the characters. They are not 'big damn heroes' and this sort of panicked reaction would happen. The downside of such things that you end up stuck till another character can come to get you out (it is less cool to just get over it and move on to doing something else, but sometimes that has to happen).
Sorry about that. Yeah, I had intended for almost no time to have passed. It was not meant to be flailing there on the ground, but things slowed and conversations happened...

Maybe we can assume that time is contracted and concentrated by the events and it has been moments that felt like a waking nightmare? And that the talking was meant to convey these complex ideas, but was fast and efficient as befits a fight.
Yes. Thanks, that was needed and works well.

@vagueGM Thank you for the explanation. It seems like things are picking back up now. Maybe it was just a bad week for us all.
I like that a lot.

Please let me know when I can roll for Deoring attacking the skeleton.

Could the forum benefit from a ''like'' or ''I agree'' button? I regularly read a nice post or plot twist that I would like to give some credit without writing too much.😊

The idea gets bandied about from time to time, but never gets much traction.

I have psycho-social concerns with such things (but then I am an old grognard (even though I welcome you onto my lawn)). While I know that people don't post (or know where to post) "Hey, I really liked what you said there" posts, having buttons (and especially the Polls) fosters a mentality of not discussion things in favour of just clicking to 'express an opinion'.

Also true.
I see it more as a ''chuckle'' when someone writes something funny or has a unique view of things. Something I would never think of myself.

I guess the fact that I write a lot on my smartphone is an extra obstacle to write out ooc things like that.

Sorry I’ve had a rough few days, I hope to get back in the action tomorrow.

Sorry to hear that. Catch up when you have time.

Welcome back, TrailHead! :)

The next 5-6ish days I'm going to be absent-ish. I'll still try to post when I can. Dirk will still be tagging along, he's just gonna be a bit narratively absent!

Thanks. We will work around you, and you can catch up when you are free again.

Are people waiting on each other?

Seems like it. I made the last post. I’ve been waiting for someone else to go.

@vagueGM, do you want me to describe the the skeleton withstanding Deoring’s hit and the cost or consequences of my 7-9 roll? Rightly or wrongly, I was expecting you to do so. I can write it if you give me a sense of the scale of the consequences. Thanks.

Apologies. I introduced the possibility of an optional free hit at a cost, but that was traded away and then not used and the question confused things.
I will play them as standard and move things forward.

My apologies for not understanding the free hit with a cost offer.

No worries. It was me bending the rules (or at least, adding bits from other games) that caused the confusion. I also should have followed up harder.

It’s all good.

Oh, I see :) no worries

Been a bit of a busy weekend. Gonna post something for Albert tomorrow.
Just to let you all know :)

Weekends are like that sometimes.

Hi all. After giving the game a shot I can't help but feel it's not for me. Hope the best for you all and thank you for time.

Not a problem. I hope you find many other games that do suit you better.

Might there be a role, space or opportunity available? I know we were building a monk but I’ll check out other things.

Role? No. Space and opportunity? Possibly. :)
You had your eye on a that, but it never developed into anything that fit.

Do you want to start afresh? Roll and then think about the character once you know the stats?

Sounds good

I have a friend who's interested in joining this game. Is it alright with you 2 if he joins?
His name on GP is Fossball. He said he'd be able to make a character this weekend.

Absolutely. This game is for new players.

Yes

Do we wait for them before leaving town?

While the village is a convenient place to pick up new characters, I don't want to add more pressure on them to get their character playable quickly.

We can always do our standard of saying they were with the party the whole time ('whole' here being since the village, or since joining at one of barons', or something like that, (or even since the beginning through the whole thing, but that seems unnecessarily complicated)).

Yeah, I think that's best.

I am not officially saying yet, but there were hints --a long time ago-- about Ahsa and an extra-extra Level of reward.

We did speak, back then and also in passing before that about how we translate Silver into XP. Early on, I thought about a "Barbarians of Lemuria" style where you blow it all on living it up and end up broke for the next adventure:
... but this does not fit the tone of story and characters we have, nor the timeframes we are working with. (Maybe we should also talk about transitioning this game to a more robust ruleset and move it away from the 'for beginners, little impact on the world' game we have here?).

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The spirit of XP for Gold has always been (well, by always I mean since the 70s) that:
So buying armour and weapons makes you stronger, but does not level you up. Buying a house or an inn does not directly make you stronger, so that does level you up.

Spending money on parties and friends, and giving it away, or sending it to your old mum, all contribute to XP. Buying a horse contributes to your ability to get more money, and therefore not directly to XP.

---

It was decided that we would not be doing XP-along-the-way for 'defeating enemies' and such. So the Ahsa reward covers everything you did up to that point. It may have been mistake to try to do it all in coin, but we can see if we can make it work. The numbers are a problem in a place like this, we may have to suspend disbelief a bit.

Thoughs?

That's definitely fine by me. Albert will probably spend it on 2 things. Rebuilding his bar and donating to the temple.
It also might be time to buy an actual weapon.

---

The only thing I'm wondering is, can Ahsa convince Albert that this money is rightfully his to spend? Or should I just go along with it for the sake of the game?

I like the barbarians idea. Spread the fame. I also have absolutely no recollection of getting that coin purse from ahsa. Good thing you have a vast archive 😉

It was meant to be a bit of a moral quandary, but you never followed up on your doubts. The problem now is: Do you have the luxury to wait till you can talk to Ahsa and find out the details or do you need to seize that opportunity to gain power so you can conquer these kidnappers?
No. Definitely play it as your character would. But maybe the high stakes you face right now will cause you to make a (level up) choice you might feel bad about later?

Oh, I see :D

Is this the money that Ahsa got from the villagers because she somehow convinced them to give all their life savings to her?

Oooh now I remember. Hmmm. That complicates things I guess.

We might find a way around the moral problem by using the money to help villagers. This will bring us more fame and goodwill.

Yes, that money.
Yes, and no. I can't go into more detail till you look in the bags.
That sounds like an excellent justification. Anyway, all the people in the village and this valley are jerks, right?

So, we see that there is only gold in the Ahsa pouches. So they may have given all the gold coins they have, but most of most people's money is silver or copper, so, while it is surprising that they could bring together 100 gold coins, they did not give away any of their silver.

I thought the same thing, where does the gold come from?
Did they rob one of the barons? The mayor's Treasury?

Or asha's uncle Midas changed the people's copper to gold.
Or just a plain old magic pouch, ...

Should this be moved to the ooc?

Probably.

Moving conversation from RP-OOC.

---

I thoroughly enjoyed it.

I thought we were talking about putting this one on hold due to time limitations [ref] —though it is possible drawing this to a close took long enough that that is resolved? :)
If we are going to continue this story now, we can talk about changing to a more robust system. Did you have anything in mind?

If we did, would you two still be interested in also being available here for (occasional) new players, possible with new characters of your own (could be awkward playing the same character in different games)? Maybe the new system necessitates making new characters for that game, though, we can see how it turns out.
OK.

How is your schedule, @Airshark?
How does this relate to our discussion about 'starting a new game', with a new system, to continue this story?

On my end, I can keep going now. The super busy period is behind me. So I have a bit more time again.
I know you're a fan of PbtA, as am I. So I'd keep it within that realm. Preferably something that's still friendly to new players. So I'm thinking something like Dungeon World (but I think I remember you not being a huge fan of DW, that's why I added the 'something like'). Either something where character creation is fast and simple or with playbooks which make it easy to start.

I really like the Fate way of character creation where you work with descriptive words that you can use within the game mechanics in different ways depending on your RP. I suppose that's kinda what WoDu did with the skills too.

I'll have a look around to see if I find anything that combines those elements. Maybe a Monster of the Week variant?
I see that just as a continuation with some changes. So no problem at all unless it requires me to read 200 pages of a handbook :P
Happy to keep playing Albert with different mechanics.
New players are also welcome. I quite like the dynamic of bringing in new people.

That was an interesting part of this game, I agree. There is some incompatibility between changing to a more robust system and maintaining that easy-drop-in-drop-out attitude that WoDu allowed. Getting started with DW, for instance, can be very quick for someone familiar with the system, but a new player would, at a minimum, need to read through a few pages of Moves, as well as the pages for any Playbooks they were interested in (we could ask them what sort of character they were interested in and suggest a Playbook or two, but it is still a lot more reading for them to get into things).

If we changed the system it would not be aimed purely at 'new players', allowing us to get more in-depth in terms of what we do. I would keep this game for new players.

That said, even if we don't pitch the game exactly the same as this one ("don't bargain on leveling up, don't expect to significantly change the world (we need to remain viable for those new players)"), I would always be open to new players, both in the sense of teaching new players to play and accepting new players at random times.
Sure.
DW is low on my list of games, but it is still on my list.

I have been thinking about running a Fellowship game here, and that just happens to be on 50%-off sale for today [DriveThruRPG]. I would have to read the rules again, it is a bit set in its ways and might not properly convert to taking up the game we have, but we could look into adjusting what is happening to fit Fellowship's 'big-bad, overlord' assumptions.

This game might also port quite well to AW:Fallen Empires (a not yet finished Fantasy themed version of Apocalypse World by the original author (available though their patreon)).
I have very much enjoyed Fate's character creation process —though it is not 'easy' for new players, and heavily favours those with experience— but have never found Fate to work well in play.

I am struggling with the restrictions that current game rules place on us, so would like something 'free-form' as you describe, but am not convinced there is anything that really fits the bill.
I have been on the verge of starting a Monster of the Week game here for months. I must finish reading the new Monster of the Week: Codex of Worlds supplement and see if any of the settings there would work, but porting vanilla MotW to play this sort of 'fantasy' could be more work than I can afford at this time.
I would be very interested in what you find.
I prefer 'proper' PbtA games that don't require the players to read more then and Reference Material (Moves and Playbooks), so I would assume you could get away with not needing to read 200 pages if you did not want to.
That is what I figured, we will, therefore, keep any new system compatible enough that we can keep the core of the character. If we have to bend the rules a bit, that is fine by me.

Some example/suggestion I was thinking about. It doesn't have to be that :) . Just thinking aloud.

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I really enjoyed this system. Though it doesn't state any way of "leveling up". I guess you'd just get extra gear and maybe a new skill. It's really light on rules and probably easy to mold into what we want/need.
Here's my character from that game.

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I also found something called "Neon City Overdrive". The system looks interesting to me, but it's in the wrong setting unfortunately.
It's got a Fate-like vibe to it and uses d6, but still also uses the PbtA idea of having partial successes.

I am not seeing how Kosmosaurs would fit our bill, I glanced at it a while ago but did not see anything that make me want to play (meh, mechanics, with the main focus being on the 'setting'... which did not appeal).

I have read Neon City Overdrive and was really impressed with they had, but it never quite had enough to make me want to play it, there are so many Cyberpunk games out there, and this is just another one.

Yeah it doesn't have the most amazing mechanics, but it's easy to pick up and just a bit more complex compared to WoDu. So still very new-player-friendly I think.
But if it doesn't excite you, we shouldn't use it :)

I'm purely talking about the system for these suggestions, not the setting. I'd like to keep that as is for this game.

I don't know many RPG's but I've played dungeon world before.
Since I'm mostly on Mobile, it's hard for me to look up rules. Well not hard but more of an annoyance that I have to overcome everytime and keeps me from posting regularly. So this FFA game was ideal for me.
The ooc in the 'and beyond game' was a bit much.
For me the fun is in adventuring and getting surprised, not in 'did I use the right move/action/...- discussions.
Don't get me wrong, of course there have to be some basic rules, but the less the better in my opinion 😉

Does that mean you are no longer asking us to put this on pause as you asked for previously? I think we are OK to carry on, but only if that suits you and your timing.

---

I'm assuming that means you are not currently wanting to learn new RPGs either? Quite understandable if time is short.
Agreed. Do you have access to a 'real' machine where you can read rulebooks (if you want to) or are you limited to rulebooks that work well on mobile? I, too am sometimes mostly on a phone and many games just are not readable on such devices, the games that require me to get back to a computer to read take a lot longer to get through than the mobile friendly ones.

If we change systems we can try to ensure that what we pick has (even if we have to make it) easy reference on mobile. But needing to look things up is always a vastly bigger chore than not needing to look anything up.
Would you say that it would be easy enough for you on mobile. There is the SRD, which fairly easy on mobile, but this still calls for looking things up until people become completely familiar with the moves and such.
That was a large part of why I picked these games for this. And is why I would not want to replace this 'for new players' game with whatever we change to if we change.

I have no problem sticking with WoDu. I don't really want more complexity. I was just making the offer if you guys wanted something with more meat.
Agreed. Though there were many factors at play there. I think that once everyone is very familiar with the rules, Traveller would be an OK ruleset, but there is a common, prevailing theory that "character creation is the best part of Traveller" and I can see that point.
Even with more structured games, I tend not to focus on nitpicking such things. But having rules for 'how to do something' can lead to a lack of freedom to do things other ways. I don't want players looking at their sheets to see what to do, I want them looking to the fiction, but the more that is on the sheets the more they tend to focus there.

Oh I see. Well if it's a hassle for Airshark and you don't feel any need to change, then let's just stick with what we've got.

I'm fine with the rolling, skills, and abilities mechanics of WoDu, the only part I'm not a fan of is the focus on getting loot. I think none of us here at the moment are that kind of player.
You solved that by having Ahsa give us money, but it doesn't feel like a great solution. In the 2 years that I've been playing Albert I've finally gotten to level 2 :P and to be honest it's underwhelming. I thoroughly enjoy the RP and the story, though. Don't see this as me saying the game is not enjoyable.
Which specific restrictions do you mean? Is it an option to just change a few WoDu rules to fix that issue?

Yeah. This was not meant to be a long-term-game. I did say "don't bargain on leveling up" and have mostly ignored this part.

The way we have played this is really just a 'milestone' system, but implemented badly. If we agreed that levels would come when appropriate (which would possibly have been earlier if we had been thinking about it), would that be to your liking?
I may have meant more about 'games in general', than specifically about WoDu, though WoDu does still have more rules than I really want :)
Not in a 'game for new players'. I prefer to keep it 'by the book' so as to avoid confusion. The WoDu 'book' is very lite, though, so 'fleshing out how things work' is still 'by the book', we are just bound by what the book does say.

I'm definitely in favor of milestone leveling! :)

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Ah, understood.

I thought about it and I would like to play on. But I also like the dynamic of new players coming and going. I don't know if that is complementary with leveling. (Not that an extra level has that much influence)
The biggest obstacle for me is learning a new, rule-heavy, game. Like with Traveller I noticed everybody was diving into the rulebook all the time and that's not something I'm good at both because of practical reasons and characteristically.

That being said, I like playing with you guys (don't know if Vague is a guy so 'no offence') and with Traveller off the table I have time to play on and if it's not too hard: learn something different that doesn't acquire the need to check the book with every move. 😉.

And so the prophecy hath been foretold, thus 't was not even a fortnight before such an event occurred.I couldn't resist signing up for a Mörk Borg one-shot :P

Doesn't change my involvement for this game though :)

Cool. I will look for the easiest way to get us from where we are to whatever comes next. We can probably just pick up with Albert's conversation with the captain.
Good. That could be irritating to some players, so I am glad that we are all on board for that part of this game. I have opened it up again for recruitment.
I don't think it is a problem. Like most PbtA games it levels sideways rather then upwards in power (though you do get more HP, which I am not really a fan of), so this just means you guys are more able to help out those new players with their new characters.

I don't foresee problems, but we might have to look into how your characters' experience impacts on the 'fresh-faced' aspect of the new characters, but I have confidence you guys will be supportive and let the new player take the reins (even if that does result in some weird story choices:).
I think I can say with some confidence that vague is... unoffendable. :)
If you actually want to try a new system, we can seek out something that is simple enough and do that, but that will be a new game. We can look at picking up this story and characters in that system as you guys like.

This game will continue using WoDu, for the ease of new players. We can look at the friction points as we go forward.

That works for me :)
Are you going to actively recruit people or just wait for players to find their way here?
I have no problem substituting the extra HP with something else. Or giving new players the same level as our characters. If that helps.
Even though I'd like to focus on the horned wolf story, I really don't mind following a new character to a different story. However, seeing the history of players quitting pretty fast (not talking about fossball here) it would be a shame if that hinders our progress.
So, I'm hoping that you'll have a good way to make detours still work with/be relevant to the current objective.

If we're continuing this game (which it looks like we are) I don't see the point in starting up a second game for it.
There are plenty of games being made weekly in the tavern.

Guess that it's decided then?
We keep playing with a fresh face.
And everything's made up and the experience points don't matter.👍

Nice reference :D

Since this is a game for new players, we mostly rely on them finding us when they arrive. Recruiting has less value if they have not arrived yet. :)

We can post a bump in the 'recruitment' thread Games for new players to help those new players find it. Do you want to do that, or should I?
Let's keep to the rules. If we find it is a problem, then we can deal with it.
That should not be necessary in PbtA.
Do you mean the 'horned-wolf' specifically, or 'the thing that was happening with the temple' in general? The Horned-Wolf is a possible solution or way forward or source of exposition, but you could just charge right in if you don't want to 'investigate'. The conversation with the captain may explain that more.
That is a danger, but we will try to keep the story going in vaguely the right direction. The new players should mostly be contributing details around what is going on right now —which does, of course, shape how things proceed— so should not be disrupting the 'progress'. For example, the temple and all that came from player contribution, the horned-wolf was placed on a wall by a player, and so on.

We will place the new player into the world and the current events and let them shape things, but those current events are still happening. If they are more interested in taking a detour, the group will decide where exactly we go right now.

The tricky part is when they add details and then leave. But we will deal with that as it comes up. If it comes to it, we can just 'discover that they were wrong' and there is 'nothing to see here'.
Here's hoping. But this is, first and foremost, still a game for those new players. Our actions are not meant to have far-reaching impact on the world, so we may often get sidetracked by small-time, local/regional issues that don't matter to people one village over. Even the temple and horned-wolf stuff probably does not matter to the city you 'started' from... unless it comes to a head.
Fair enough. It was just an offer if you guys wanted a game where you could explore your character more deeply (deeper rules) and have larger impact on the world... or were just bored with WoDu.

Yeah that's the kind of thing I was thinking of too. Or just by checking introduction threads to see if anyone would fit.
Or a thread like the tinyD6 game.

I'd rather leave it up to you :) but I'm happy to throw in my promotion for it if you'd like.
Yes that. But horned wolf was easier to type :P
That's a fair point

I am not very comfortable with self-promotion, so would not post links to this game in each Introduction post. I have not checked in detail, but it seems like Psybermagi's game is a bit more focused on teaching people how to use this site —in the vein of what bowlofspinach used to offer— so that may be more appropriate as a first place to go after Introduction.
'Like' that in what way? How is that different to the one we have? [ref] Should I add something to ours? Our thread is old, and could possible benefit from a spruce-up.
I tend to only mention it to player who specifically show interest (in PbtA or something else relevant) —and also tend to only comment in Introduction posts where I actually have something to say (but then I am 'anti-social' :).

By all means, mention this game to anyone you think may benefit. Also on the Discord and such, where I seldom roam.
Got it. :)

Oh, I didn't know (or forgot) there was one :D Never mind!
Will do!

This predates the ability to link games and recruitment threads together, and the thread was for general 'games for new players' so it linked to a few games (making it unlinkable to this game directly). We could make a new thread for this game specifically, and link it, though I am not sure of the benefit aside from possibly being able to find the thread a bit easier.

Can you not link the 2 anymore now?
I think just a 'bump' post to bring it back to the first page every now and then would do.

It is a two-way linking: The game links to the page, and you set up the link from the game page, so any game can link to any thread; but the thread also links back to the game, and when more than one game links to a thread it can not (last I checked) link back to more than one game... so it picks one, based hard-to-control/-predict factors.

Oh that's annoying. Hmm. Well I guess we'll just have to live with it.

I have cleaned up the organisation of the game a bit.

Check your Subscriptions to see if you need to update them (I will move this thread after posting, that way old Subscriptions will still trigger).

That's actually great :)
The list in the "Threads" of the bottom red bar was getting a bit long

True dat. I was kinda wondering how much more it could take. :)

Maybe this person could be a good one to add to this game?

Will do. I see some interest in PbtA in their User Profile.

So, @GameMaster, are you and Gronk leaving us?

He was an interesting character, do you have any thoughts about how he might be used in the game going forward? I usually don't turn PCs into NPCs, but his attempts to control the genius loci might affect the world in ways we can not foresee.

If she asks for it, would Gronk be willing to gift the vial of mist to Ezme as a home for Wankle? We can deal with it without you if you want to leave before she gets to explore that further, just wondering how Gronk would respond.

Gonna put this here because it doesn't really fit in the OOC thread that is currently being used.
I think it's mostly about the spirit of things.

If you guys want to have a side-flashback-adventure within this game where you use the principle of 'Play to find out what happens' that would be fine and likely fun to do for the ones involved. There can be a thread for something like this (I think. Correct me if I'm wrong, vague) It would be played just like our current RP thread.
But the way it sounds now is that you've already done that part and gone back to change past 'posts' to fit new ideas when they came up. Which comes down to writing a short story.

I'm totally fine with you guys sharing this with us, but I have to honestly say that it's unlikely that I will read it. That doesn't mean that I don't want to know about it. But prefer to find out about it as Albert.
That being said, if you can condense it into a one paragraph summary, that could be useful for me so I can have Albert say things that may trigger one of you to talk about your past. You can put it in your character sheet for easy reference. Then again, it's not an odd question to ask "How do you 2 know each other?" when 2 people obviously know each other. :D Which would accomplish the same thing.That way you get to share this background bit by bit and even add more.

What do you think about that idea? (This question is directed at everyone in this game)

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This is really sweet! Thanks for this offer :) I'll keep it in mind. <3

XP and Leveling

The way we are playing this game, and the types of characters we have, and the types of motivations they come with, does not fit with the rules assumption of 'looting for gold' and 'XP for gold' (even if it is is 'silver':).

The rules do have a provision for awarding XP for 'quests' [ref] (10 XP for something easy up to 200+ for a really tough one), I suggest we start to use that option.

How would we like to approach this? I can parcel out XP for individual task, or we can 'milestone' leveling where you learn when you have done enough to 'level up'. Some players prefer to not have to deal with tracking XP on their sheets, but most find it more rewarding to be able to see their XP mounting and with it the anticipation of 'getting close to a new level'. We can decide as a group how we want to do this, but bear in mind that these decisions affect any new players joining the game later as well, milestones can get very messy with very different levels.

I am not creating a Poll since I would prefer to hear your thoughts about why than just have a characterless 'vote'.
What do you think? Everyone should answer.

I'm playing this game for 2-ish years and never felt the need to gain XP. Granted, it might be nice to fail less when rolling dice, but then again, failing has given us a lot of fun too.

So for me, I prefer not keeping track of XP and just have a yearly level up 😂. Or once every 2 years...

It might be less fun for new players if they have to join a more experienced party.

That is a consideration, and part of the reason not gaining levels advertised as a thing for the game. PbtA often does not care about different levels, but there are enough vertical changes that this one can be a bit unbalanced.

Roald was working towards bettering his Leadership, but it takes more 'levels' before that is an option you can pick up. Maybe, if we all prefer it, we can forget about the standard leveling system and work towards specific goals (picked from the 'examples' the game gives (Hit Dice, Skills, Special Abilities) or custom options) in the fiction. When I make 'free form' games this is how I tend to do 'leveling' (you can think of it like 'everything is the Workspace Move' from Apocalypse World [ref pdf] (or the Ritual Move from Dungeon World, but also present in many others)).

I think my ideas align with Airshark's pretty well. I prefer milestone leveling if I have to choose. I really don't enjoy keeping track of every XP point or coin that I 'find'.

Besides that, I think the leveling options in WoDu are quite boring. As you've said before, not having a skill doesn't mean you can't attempt it. So, I really haven't felt like Albert is missing anything 'locked away'.
If I could suggest an amendment to this; Instead of working towards a specific goal, I would like to do a sort of evaluation of my character when a milestone is reached. Then, based on the previous # posts, decide which skill, ability, or stat deserves an upgrade.

This way you can still work towards a goal if you wish to, or you can play to find out what happens.

Ooh, I just remembered the Disc World game we played, vague. I really enjoyed that leveling system where the other players had to suggest 1 or 2 new traits for your character. Then you could pick from that list.

I don't know if that's at all compatible with WoDu, but I liked that mechanic as it gave you an idea of how the other players experienced your character.

Here is a reference to our Disc World game leveling. Just in case people are interested in having a look :)

I’d much rather do milestone leveling than tracking XP. I prefer some kind of leveling, but understand that it can make for an unbalanced game for new players. Perhaps not too frequently? The Discworld leveling is interesting and novel, but I don’t strongly prefer it over other options. I do love Discworld a lot though! Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to go plot how to work Discworld references into every possible post (geeking out intensifies) :D

I don't care a ton about leveling, beyond the fact that I don't want to think about it a ton. Milestone is preferred over tracking XP.

Agreed that the discworld leveling does sound novel, but like QuietPanther I don't strongly prefer it.

Ooo I realized that I’ve already done it! Lille’s "kneel in the runner’s starting position" is a direct Rincewind thing :)

OK. We will do something like milestones, in that I will tell you when I think we each should level up. We can see about this voting on improvements process (a watered down version of the 'leveling' system from Burning Wheel) when that happens.

Thought this was appropriate being in the circus ourselves.

Checking in about how we are feeling.

I am not sensing a lot of engagement with the current material. As always, we —all the players— decide how much time we spend on any elements in the game, we also decide on the tone (which I left open to be whimsical or scary, and we seem to have settled on the slightly creepier side of middle).

• Do we want immediate feedback and 'answers' (most of your actions seem to be asking me 'what next' rather than driving the story yourselves).

• Do we want to get out of this quickly?

• Do we want to start bringing the characters together? Albert and Lille, maybe?

• Do we want to bring Emze into the carnival to join the others? Do we want me to make that happen or does karabooo want to find a way?

• Do we want Ezme to have more time with Theo? (as an NPC he does not drive the story)

I am equally happy with all options. I have no agenda with this, and no plans that will be disrupted.

I'm honestly not sure how to 'act' as Albert in this dream. I think I need some more stage direction. Should albert say yes to anything that happens? Does he still have common sense right now? Does he realize it's not real? Right now he is cautious because this is all quite strange.

I always have a preference to interact with other players. I was trying to do that by using Ezme's lines inside my dream (not sure if anyone noticed that :P) Ezme could maybe hear Albert mumbling back in his sleep.

Is this dream a hurdle to get past or an important story element? As in, does it serve to find out as much as possible, or will 1 task snap us out of it and we can get back to other things?

Fair. Hence this discussion.
No, no. Have him act as he always would. It seems strange, and I will 'direct' you if anything happens that 'overrides' your ability to choose (as with not feeling the need to wake your companions (the Split Them Up GM Move)), but otherwise do what you think he would do with the information he has.
I think that that will be an endgame thing, right? As soon as we realise that, it ends the exploration part of the scene and turns into a fight to get out, right?

It is up to the players how soon we want to move to that stage, but also how hard we fight once we know.

If we want out soon, just say so and we can make that happen. If we want to explore the act of exploration and discovery, say so and we can do that.

Let me know how overtly 'strange' you each want things to be for your character and we can do that. Roald's is already stranger than the others'.

Whenever you want you can have your characters start realising things are strange and start actively seeking enlightenment.
Agreed. We can try get that working if anyone else wants us to push themself and Albert together.
I missed that. It could work, though.
Possibly, though that may need to be coordinated on a player level, since she is focusing on Daryl.

We could use Ezme's close contact with Daryl to bring her into the scene with you guys. That is only one of the ways I can see to get her inside 'the dream'.
You should know better than that. :)

For the record: I almost never gate story progress by forcing something to be dealt with. Whatever players choose to engage with will be what drives the story forward. These choices to ignore or engage with things will shape what happens, but I have no plans and this dream sequence is of karabooo's doing. :)
Only in as much as the other option is for you to awake with no clue what happened, which is fine too.
I have no idea. If the players choose that they want to snap out of this, then we can do that, the 'tasks' are arbitrary and can be skipped if we don't want to engage.

I didn't specifically mention it, thought it would be fun if someone figured it out :D
It was subtle, I must admit.The "Hey Albert! Are you awake?" was something I thought Theo might have said when trying to wake people up.

That's true :) I know how you GM by now.

For my part, I’m engaged and enjoying this. I have a vague "agenda," but was waiting to get more info from you and Gen before proceeding. No need to pull me into dreams just yet.

If I were a dreamer, though, I think I’d want guidance as to what is expected of me. Solving a riddle that somehow leads to one’s own escape? Gathering intel and (possibly) imparting it to Ezme so she can help? Creating some sort of intriguing scene that reveals character backstory while waiting to be rescued? These are all options, some of which have already been explored a little…

I suspect your wish is for players to choose for themselves what they get out of it. If that is the case, should the players agree behind the scenes what the dream agenda is for consistent storytelling? That’s a little unclear to me.

.

I definitely caught what you were doing here. Thought it was clever. ;)

Sure, sure. :)
I thought that phrase strange, but did not pay enough attention to make the connection (it was 17 hours between my reading those two posts). :)
I saw that one, but thought it was in reference to Roald call out to you. [ref]

That is indeed my wish at all times. :)

All the options you listed are within our grasp.
Before taking too strong an action to force things in one direction or another the players should be on the same page. While 'exploring the world', this is consensus less necessary.
Just let me know when, or tell me if you want me to hold off. Or we can use dice and the current actions to decide (but only after you are ready to move over).
As a personal preference, I am not a fan of riddles, it is hard to solve them as the character, and there is little value in bringing in out-of-game knowledge to solve in-game problems. I have no issue with in game riddles, but they are merely part of the story and a purely character-based thing.

Feel free to keep forging a connection.

Thanks :D I'm happy you found that hint!

One possibility is that you guys somehow find each other in the dreamscape, and Ezme gets a hint that this is happening. I could probably piece together a way for her to figure that out, especially if she has the aid of a sleep talker.

If Ezme understood you were all together, she would be more willing to enter the dream world to rally you all to some sort of action... whatever that might be. (I don't require that as a story point, but I'm throwing that out there.)

I threw Lille in a blanket with Roald. Maybe those two could find each other first, because of this action taken in the real world? :: shrug :: Just an idea.

You can learn that from Daryl if you want. Have him say anything you need.
The character does not need to be willing, of course. We can swap her with Daryl if the player is interested.

If you want the character to be actively involved in the decision, maybe you can do a little bonding with Theo to establish him as an anchor over here for you to come back to before you risk crossing over?
A nice fuzzy blanket... a fuzzy bear? Looks like they are already being drawn together. :)

You're also welcome to use any line of Albert's. Even the NPCs are in his imagination and could be something he says out loud.

I'm trying to keep up with both threads, but it's not always easy due to busy life things happening 😅

Well, technically Albert’s the one with the bear. Roald is off battling sausage ducks. Hehe!

Yeah… Like you suggest, Vague, I think I need some bonding time with Theo. I’ll work on that.

Doh!

I guess your external influences are not so strong. :)

My relative lack of posting is entirely due to real life being busy. I am going to be traveling for the next day or so, so my posting will remain limited. I had hoped to post more before the actual travel, but various prep and running errands has kept me busier than I expected.

I generally like the trippy fair as a place for Lille. It gives her a chance to both explore Being Around Many Humans and to see how she deals with social normalcies that are unfamiliar to her. That said, I’m not opposed to doing some joining up with other characters. I don’t need to rush to escaping the dream world quite yet, but if other people want to move in that direction, that’s also ok.

For the record, I imagined that the cloak was made of deerskin with the fur still on. But not an important detail :)

Cool. We will hold off on linking yourself and Albert up by the bear until you are available. He may have to go looking for you in the meantime.

In two years I've been playing this game, I think the last months had the most interaction/posts. (Not saying that's a bad thing). So don't worry about writing less than other players 😉.
Gen told me once that you can also just write a couple of lines so other players know you read everything. Something like: "Lille agrees with Albert and heads out into the woods to do some hunting" not really adding much to the story, but that's not a problem.
We used to have an involuntary weekend-stop too 😁.
Real life always comes first!

For Roald, I'm treating this scene as a genuine dream. Repeating stuff, weird things happening, maybe teleport from one situation into the other. I'm also already working towards getting out. Maybe Roald can snap out of the dream (or only for a brief moment) and tell Ezme what's going on/ help her figuring it out.

I really like the way you're doing this. With the impossible things happening and you getting frustrated :D
Feels really dream-like!

Moving this from The Shadow Carnevale (OOC). I did not know if this would garner any interest.
I don't think this game is 'designed for PbP', that is more The Sundered Land, though that was designed for open forum play. This is a slower pace, and more deliberate as there are only two people being asked to provide answers, not the whole internet on a first come first served basis.

They do imply the volunteer GMs can change all the time, but I think it would run smoother if they already know something about the game. Else I have to explain what is required over and over again... but I am used to that. :)
We would obviously only play for as long as both the two volunteers (and the player) are keen on the game.

I first considered this before this site had the option to allow people 'not in the game' to post replies. Not needing to have the current volunteers join the game (which appears like a bigger commitment) and just allowing them to post on the threads helps with replacing the volunteers.

I don't recall why we need two volunteers, but do we have a second?

Wait... so there is a difference between PbP and pen-and-paper rpg? What you wrote here suggests as much, but I thought they were synonymous. Could you help me understand the differences?

(The game describes itself as a "pen-and-paper rpg with a twist.")

'Pen and Paper' is an old term, originally used for marketing. Games shops needed a way to distinguish what we call Role Playing Games from other games played on the tabletop (board games, card games, miniature and terrain, or even ball games). Not all Pen and Paper games are RPGs, of course, but the term is pretty synonymous.

PbP is 'Play by Post', as in posting on a forum, as we do here. It is a form of Pen and Paper that uses neither pens nor paper.

The Wizard's Grimoire is intended to be played like any other RPG, so it is as well suited to PbP as any other. Being a fairly modern and fairly simple game is also has some assumptions that it could be played 'over the phone', you call up your volunteer friends and ask them to play for a bit, though a voip system would aid in having all three able to talk.

The Sundered Land is by the same authors, and is designed for online forum play (it talks specifically about the now defunct G+ if I recall correctly).

I'm not interested in starting a new game.
If the other players would like to move on to an efa (experienced faced adventurers) game, I would understand 😉

Fortunately that is not what is being discussed here.

This would be a different game, separate from this one, and the two players who are interested would act more like GMs (or oracles) than actual players. It should not affect this game would have nothing to do with it (aside from recruiting people I like from here:).

Yes, but maybe someone could prefer the new game over this one and only have time for one game to give enough attention to.
In that case: see previous post 😁
I believe the FFA game was started to introduce new players to pbp, in my opinion some of us already exceeded that level.
(Not saying I'm not liking the events at the carnival, on the contrary actually)
Damnit, now I sound like I want to get rid of everyone.
Let me fix that.
Edit: strike through 😁
Edit: some hugs to show my appreciation.

You are right! Maybe I need to institute a rule forbidding my players from playing other games? That way they can never find something better and are never tempted to leave? Sounds like a plan! :)

That is exactly what I was trying to say!


(Yes I was being sarcastic too)

It was clear. Hence: so was I. :)

@Airshark Fresh Fake Adventurers? 😁

@vagueGM
If you'd like to have me as a co-gm, I'd be up for it. My other game has just ended. So I have a bit of room. But I can't promise daily posting.

Also from our starforged attempt it was clear that our views don't always match, so no hard feelings if you think I'd be a bad match for this 🙂

I don't know anything about this grimoire thing.

Thank you.

I have read through the rules, created a game, and invited you both to it [link]. We can decide how we want to get started. Ask me any questions you need, but I am expected to handled all the work and will explain everything as it is needed.

Kara, are you seeing the other game? We could use your input. Maybe you didn't notice because you don't look at the homepage 😅🤷

Yep, you got me, and I hadn’t subscribed to the game yet. That said, it was on my radar, and I was planning on trying to tackle it this morning.

Apologies for the delay. It has been a busy last few days. (Summer is just generally more full for me, and I hadn’t realized @vagueGM had planned on starting the new game pronto!)

But first I’m going to see if I can sleep a little more….. Went to bed at 1 am and it’s now 5:50 am here. I drank for the first time in months last night, and that always messes with my sleep!

Yep, you got me, and I hadn’t subscribed to the game yet. That said, it was on my radar, and I was planning on trying to tackle it this morning.

Apologies for the delay. It has been a busy last few days. (Summer is just generally more full for me, and I hadn’t realized @vagueGM had planned on starting the new game pronto!)

But first I’m going to see if I can sleep a little more….. Went to bed at 1 am and it’s now 5:50 am here. I drank for the first time in months last night, and that always messes with my sleep!

No worries. Glad to still have you. Get some sleep, and plenty of water.

Yeah totally fine :) just wouldnt want you to miss out

Classic drunk, saying everything twice 😂

Hey, I got a technicality question regarding character creation....
So let's imagine your Constitution were amazing at 12. Would your hp at the start be 1d6 plus ... 3d6 (your CON modifier x D6)?? Surely it isn't 1d6 + 12d6!?!

The game only cares about the Modifier, so if you rolled a 12 you would have a CON of 3. So you would roll 1d6 + 3d6 for HP (4 HD), but you would then only keep 1 of the dice at Level 1. High CON gives you better chances of getting a 6 HP, it does not give you more than 6 HP at the start making Special Abilities like Hardy immensely strong at the beginning of the game.

I think World of Dungeons is a great game, my main gripe (and constant irritation, and source of this exact confusion again and again) is having all those six Attributes, I seldom see the need for more than 4, and then I often have only three Attributes.

I did mention that there was little value in keeping the dice-rolled numbers on the sheet, the 12 is only for generating the Modifiers. No one else has these recorded on their sheet, and the distinction between Constitution and CON that you have on yours is not something the game does (that is DnD... even in 2024):.

Ah, right! That is very helpful. Thank you! What would you choose for your three or four attributes, if you had your druthers?

That massively depends on the system/world/flavour. My most recent quick-and-dirty from-scratch ruleset had ... let me check my notes...:

World of Dungeons Turbo: Breakers uses:

• Insight: Awareness, understanding, smarts.
• Prowess: Fighting, athletics, might.
• Resolve: Willpower, fortitude, toughness.

Thanks for sharing the above, @VagueGM.

Wrestling with a good deal of rage/fear/anxiety this week. Some if it personal, but a large part of it is because of the upcoming election. I don't like saying negative things about people and I don't wish to wax too political in this forum, but I think Trump's brain is stunted and the thought of him rising again to power really frightens and sickens me.

Anyway, I appreciate the opportunity to vent these emotions using a creative outlet.

'Always happy to talk game design.' :)

I am in a Year Zero Engine game and was struggling with some of the Skills->Attribute distributions. Most notably I was trying to make a Driver character and found needing to have a high Body stat was forcing the character into a particular flavor. (Trying to model the world in too much detail is a constant problem in 'games'.)

With this reminder I realise now that part of the problem is that YZE has one too many Attributes. In this game we have both Body and Coordination, and (vaguely STR and DEX) and if we combined them into one Attribute to represent both we would end up with Body, Wits, and Empathy... (as per the above [ref]) ;)
Understandable.
Games can be a good outlet.

Would you like to steer the situation [ref] in a direction to allow for more 'venting' (which could be physical or 'verbal at stupid people')? You got a 9, which means you did not completely defuse the tension, but you have a degree of control over where it goes next.

That's really sweet of you to offer. I think you should steer the story in whatever direction you think makes the most sense given the narrative. My emotional state shouldn't dictate the way other characters behave (even if I allow it to bleed into my PC now and then!). :-P

Hey, don't look at me. I did not know there would be any conflict in this town until you rolled that 6. It could have been a completely safe stop-over with friendly people.

What your character does always defines what happens next. So you still have the option of this turning into a fight if you don't handle it just 'right' and the tension is not completely gone.

One obvious cost of this Partial Success is to transfer the tension down the road... literally, in this case: down to the border. We can take this discussion back to town and see if that, future, problem can be resolved as well.

We can also skip it if 'border crossings' are too raw a subject at this time. :) [safety tools]
The immediate emotional state of the players at the table always dictates what sorts of things we avoid or lean into during a session. This is why we play games with humans we trust and not just with computers. :)

Well, true. But I guess I'm saying... pretend I never said anything and respond as you normally would have.... I just wanted to make sure no one took Ezme's mood personally!

I'm okay exploring most issues -- including border-crossing ones -- in story.

Fair enough. But I normally would have asked you anyway. This is no different.

A player should know what they are getting into before they roll, and, if they don't like it, they can try to find a way to avoid rolling and taking the risk or try to find a different approach that avoids that particular risk. If they have already rolled we need to get everyone on the same page about what is happening and adjust the consequences to everyone's liking and expectations.

I went with the established fiction of the women acting a bit like outsiders and that making the village suspicious when they are caught sneaking out (probably Hilda wanted to go to bed and asked 'where are they?'). :)

I'm sorry :(

Thank you for these words. Truly, it is me who is sorry... I wish I could apologize on behalf of my nation. I know it's possible that I'm being overly pessimistic, but this morning it feels like the world is coming to an end.

As I readied my kids for school, I told them that we would have to be the light in the darkness. I told them the world is getting better bit by bit, but there are bound to be hiccups along away. I told them that if they had any gay, trans, or immigrant friends to give them hugs. And I told them not to be angered if they heard someone talking out in favor of Trump. I reminded them that we are all just humans searching to find the best course of action in a confusing world.

I’m trying so hard to be a reassuring, soothing presence. It isn’t easy.

Yeah I dunno if I’ll feel like posting today. We’ll see how I feel later. But please carry on if others are interested in doing so.

No problem. We can wait.

I truly hope it won't be as bad as people are imagining. Though it surely could be. Only time will tell. But every country's government has had their share of 'hiccups'. As you say, this too will pass.

May Raynor's light shine upon you and your loved ones in dark days 🤗

I'm fine with having a pause.

This is the song of the day.

I'll try to post tomorrow. Though, I'm not sure what to say. I was kinda waiting on @vagueGM to have the group do something in response to Ezme's outburst. If they want to get mean and violent, I'm down with that. But I'm also okay with them being somewhat pacified. Either way, I'm sure I could find a way to work through some emotions.

OK. I will move things along in a non-committal way. Get everyone more-or-less together.