TftF OOC

I think you could justify it. She failed to act in time then and couldn't save the cat. But this time, maybe she can save the kids... If you stretch it a bit, I think you can figure it out

OK, gave it a go.

Is it just me, or does putting Dr. Sundgren in her own device and throwing the switch again until she vanishes sound like a good idea? No one is going to believe us AGAIN and she is going to walk free and harm more people, unless we stop her for good.

I'm not sure where you got that Elisabeth has a gun, @RageRed. She's just working the machine and as far as you can see, she doesn't look armed

I'm also thinking about this now 🤔
The book definitely wants her around for the final adventure of the campaign. If you do decide totry and get rid of her, I'd have to see how I would still make that work. But I'm sure I could figure something out

Posted May 24
Dr. Sundgren tenses up at the sound of Sixten's attempt to break the glass. She looks up at him and reaches for the pistol at her hip. When Sixten tries again and Dr. Sundgren sees that the plexiglass does not seem even close to giving in, she relaxes again and turns her eyes back to the machine, ignoring the boy's struggling.

Ah, right. I forgot about that and couldn't find it because I only searched for "gun". Thanks for the reminder.
She probably wouldn't be wielding it this moment but she is armed. Doesn't make a big difference to your post anyway, I was just curious

I understand how frustrating Elisabeth is. She's arrogant and doesn't acknowledge that she's been beaten. I hate encountering villains like that, so I'm sorry for that 😅

That said, I'm really not comfortable with torture, like, it's the one thing I can't stand in any media and it just makes me really uncomfortable.

So I'd prefer if we could not go that route here.

Maybe it makes sense to discuss ooc what the solution to this confrontation should be and then move it in character. That might be more productive.

One thing I might not have made clear is that she doesn't expect you to leave the kids with her, just that you let her walk away from this. Which I understand you don't want to do.
Again, I'm happy to let you find some punishment for her. I might have to bend the final adventure in response to it but that's fine.
I'm perfectly happy with you banishing her.
I don't know if I'd be as happy with you shooting her. I'm not viscerally uncomfortable with it like with torture, but there's a lot of implications there. For one, your character(s) will have to deal with having murdered someone. And they might have experienced some tough stuff, but they're still just regular teenagers. We'd also have to figure out what the legal consequences would be. If Elisabeth disappeared, well, nobody has seen her in a decade anyway. If she is found shot dead, there'll be an investigation. And there's an eyewitness that saw you enter and whom you attacked.

Anyway, just saying, I understand how frustrating the situation is. It's written in the book to let her get away unobstructed so she can show up in the next mystery. But again, I'm happy to bend that if it'll give you a better experience. We should just figure out how

ah, OK. Was trying to roleplay an appropriate reaction for an angry young girl whose brother has ceased to exist and that just stepped into a torture chamber of the woman responsible for that...

Stina is trying to figure out if there is a specific action that the tattooed doctor has to take to re-instate things, and if she can intimidate her into taking that action. She wants her brother back, and is prepared to use violence if that can help get him back.

What I really don't like about how the writer ends this part, is that she not only just walks away and it says she can't be charged with anything, but she has kidnapped and tortured at least five kids and they are alive to testify to this fact. Also, the idea that if we stop the machine and take the kids out of it, suddenly everything goes back to normal. Very bad writing and logic at least for me.

I say we dump her in the machine and erase all trace of her ever having existed. This will reverse what she did to the kids to the changes that have occurred. Better yet, if we erase her completely from existence and she never forms the Prophets. Jarnek is not goaded into killing Tanenbaum's mother and all her minions were never mesmerized by her.

Mikael's party will go off without weird twists and we all live happily ever after.

After reading Sundgren's BS I just want her gone. Permanently. Put her in the machine and as she's vanishing, put a bullet in her.

Seconded. And I 100% get Stina's approach as well - losing a close family member like that and having the person directly in front of you...I'd argue an emotionally charged teenager is at least as likely, but maybe more likely, to resort to senseless violence to try and fix everything, lacking a better idea.

I totally get that. It's definitely the one main complaint about the campaign that I've seen online that all the prophets have plot armor in their initial adventures.
The book says that she can't be charged with anything because the kidnapped kids are too confused and shaken up to give a proper statement, which, yeah, I think feels like a copout. It also doesn't feel quite right that shutting off the machine just fixes reality somehow.

This will also mean that it will be completely impossible for us to play the final part. Which, okay. We can end the campaign after this one if this is the more satisfying end for you. It does kind of wrap up the campaign nicely to undo everything that the Prophets did that way and to make it so they were never formed.
I would prefer if we got to play the final adventure as well, to have gone through the whole campaign. But if this is how you prefer to end it, I'll accept that.

Yes. It is how I would end it.

I would however be open to playing in the fourth part as an alternate world with a different character, maybe in Colorado?

Hm, I'm not opposed to that solution either. The final adventure does expect the PCs already having played through the first three, so those alternate characters would have to be assumed to have gone through similar adventures as yours. But it would be possible.

I'm far more interested in the Swedish setting than the American one, but I would be open to running the adventure at the US Loop if you'd like to explore that part of the setting. If everyone wants to go for this alternative universe idea for the fourth adventure.
Also, fair warning: If we move to the US, the characters' names would be different. But I could put a refresher into the forum so everyone can keep track of who is who

Slightly evil idea: If you banish Elisabeth to a different universe, we could assume that that universe would assume her to have always been part of it, so she would have done similar things there as she did in the one we've played so far. So while you would be dealing with a different Järnek and a different Liv (or their American counterparts), Elisabeth could conceivably be the same person as in this universe 😄

Throw Elisabeth in the machine, shoot her as she's disappearing - bullet hits vital component, machine explodes, we all wake up in different bodies as alternative versions of ourselves? Offer a chance for us to return home to our normal reality through the end of the final chapter?

I live in the US, but the Swedish setting is more to my liking as well.

@C1NDER, I don't want different bodies. If we are going for a different reality, I will be creating a completely new character, as I want the end of the Trilogy to be the finale for Sabine and Kajsa so they can get on with their lives and move on to Stockholm.

That's fair, it was just a thought.

I guess we put her in the machine then? How do our characters know how to erase her from reality like ahe never existed? Or is that just automatically what happens when we put her in?