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Dec 1, 2022 10:18 am
Understandable and reasonable:) Of course - so obvious that maybe not even worth mentioning - there is not such think as perfect system. There is not even such thing as "perfect system for me". I'm fully aware of that. What I meant was "the best system I can get for this case - for me". But seeing how many iterations of YZE there are I may be not the only one that felt that feeling. And seeing how popular they are... there may be still space for such system for others to enjoy too... maybe:)

"Perfect system" is a joke/playful term for me. And I use it with that assumption in my mind... :)
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Dec 1, 2022 10:26 am
Sure, every system has some small niggle, but trying to 'fix just that small thing' so often reveals why it was done that way and that 'fixing' it means significant parts of the rest of the system need to change... in subtle ways.

If you are the only one who will be using the system (along with your table, presumably), then mashing together the bits you like works fine, you have the understanding and willingness to work on any rough patches that show up. The more people you get involved the harder that process becomes.
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Dec 14, 2022 9:50 pm
With us all active in the How do we know each other thread I think I am happy with the four players and characters we have.

Should I close the recruitment for this game?
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Dec 14, 2022 10:48 pm
Yeah, I think we can start with the 4 of us and see how things go. I'm already quite overwhelmed with all the char creation info right now :P
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Jan 11, 2023 7:51 am
@WhtKnt and @Airshark: I worry the Where do we start thread has gotten away from us a bit. We really do need your input before it goes too far to catch up to.

How are you guys doing? Is there anything we can do to get you into the discussion?
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Jan 11, 2023 12:38 pm
To be honest. It's a lot of text, combined with a new game, it feels a bit like work. But I know it's something to get through so I'll get cracking!
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Jan 11, 2023 12:51 pm
Airshark says:
To be honest. It's a lot of text, combined with a new game, it feels a bit like work. But I know it's something to get through so I'll get cracking!
Keep it simple.

Remind (or tell) us how you know (at least two of) the other PCs.
Grab two Skills learned from those Connections.
Grab two Skills from the Package.

Tell us how you think Lio is involved in the stealing of a ship from a Navy Depot (working mothballed ship storage). In as much or as little detail as you want.
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Jan 12, 2023 12:18 am
I will have something up in the next day or so. Things got very busy here.
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Jan 12, 2023 6:54 am
WhtKnt says:
... Things got very busy here.
No worries. Let us know if you need anything to help you sift through all that has been written.
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Feb 2, 2023 10:09 pm
Welcome back @WhtKnt. I hope things you and your family are doing as well as can be expected.

Let us know if there is anything you need from us to get caught up. But don't feel rushed.
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Feb 3, 2023 3:42 am
We're okay, thank you. I may be a little stuttery until after the funeral (Feb. 10) because family from both sides (mine and hers) are coming for the funeral, but I should a least be able to post every other day or so.
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Feb 3, 2023 3:44 am
The slowed pacing is not a problem.
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Feb 11, 2023 11:46 pm
As a bit of a silly side-not. In a different game I'm playing in, I created a niece for my character called "Anny". But the GM probably misread it while writing back and switched it to "Abby". So... Now I have 2 games where I'm directly linked to a person named Abby. :P

I'm sure that won't be confusing at all ^^
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Feb 12, 2023 6:18 am
TheGenerator says:
... niece for my character called "Anny" ... switched it to "Abby" ... I'm sure that won't be confusing at all ^^
Good luck convincing your jealous ex-girlfriend that you did not just call her by the name of another girlfriend, that "Anny is my niece... no I meant Abby..." :)
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Feb 21, 2023 8:01 am
Gonna move this conversation here.
Pedrop says:
In the same time I'm in one of the Cyberpunk RED(its STAT+d10 ruleset vs TN) games when all the players usually roll with their posts - and GM never provide any Target
I've seen this in games too. I guess it's used as a way to speed up play. The downside is (and this is something I know vagueGM does often) sometimes your just succeed without a roll. If your RP is spot on, it might just work straight up. And that's always better than a chance to fail. When you roll, the dice decide the outcome instead of you :)

It comes down to the GMs preference, I suppose.

Another advantage to rolling later, in my eyes, is that before the roll your team members have a chance to join your action. Like if you're trying to get past a guard and you're talking to them. Another player can look up their facebook profile and give you details about the guard to help your talk with them.

However if you roll already and it fails, then that would imply that the guard already doesn't believe you and that other player has to do something to 'save' you from the situation or do damage control.

It's a different approach. I don't see it as the good or bad way of doing things.
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Feb 21, 2023 10:41 am
TheGenerator says:

It's a different approach. I don't see it as the good or bad way of doing things.
Completely agree. I wasn't "showing" that cyberpunk example as something "better". Just was trying to describe better about what I'm talking about by "rolls in advance".

Personally I lean towards "rolling later", as this seems to be more similar to playing RPG in real life(more natural) and provides better interactions between players(as you also stated in your post).

But I can see the reason why many people do it that way: that if we will be waiting for everyone to confirm if they want to interact before the roll... and this everyone will happen to be separated by time zones and be able to answer only every 24h... one roll could take almost a week of confirming... before the actual roll :)

But I'm all for "later rolls" and this game is a little different as GM is very active few times a day and most of the players are too. So it looks that it will work just fine:)
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Feb 21, 2023 11:35 am
Pedrop says:
I wasn't "showing" that cyberpunk example as something "better"
I didn't think you were :)
I like discussing these things and checking out the pros and cons of things :D
Pedrop says:
But I can see the reason why many people do it that way
Yes, also some game systems (or GMs) ask for a lot of rolls. Which again would slow things down.
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Feb 21, 2023 1:01 pm
TheGenerator says:
... it might just work straight up. And that's always better than a chance to fail ...
The flip-side of that is that there are systems where you can 'get more for good successes', so sometimes players still want to roll and take the risk on a guaranteed success, for the chance of getting something better (a 'critical success', or something). But again, that only comes up after the RP and the group has decided success is almost inevitable.

In something like Blades in the Dark (a very refined ruleset) this process is made explicit, and players can choose to adjust that 'guaranteed success' to 'risky' by pushing the odds (or can adjust a risky roll to safe by giving up some effectiveness). But Blades is not as revolutionary as people tend to think, it is a really just a refinement and codification of the sorts of things people were already doing.
TheGenerator says:
... team members have a chance to join ...
Yeah... though this is a bane in PbP, it can really slow things down and we do have to find a way to shortcut this 'Help' process. In games that have an explicit Help mechanic (many PbtA) it used to be assumed that this needed to come before the roll, the helper puts themself at some risk and, on a very bad or very good roll, might not have any way to affect the roll. That risk to self is part of the rules, but also sometimes feels bad. In PbP (and also live, most times) I almost always rules that such Help rolls come after the main roll, and we only wait for them if they could make a difference. I still find that players throw themselves into the danger "I can't Help (under the rules), but my character would have tried. I won't bother rolling, but assume I was also in there and suffer those same consequence you described :(."

Traveller's Task Chains are pretty structured, and should require us to wait, but we can also work out ways (depending on the fiction) to backfill them after a roll. However, they are not simple Help rolls, and really are their own RP and need to be played out. We will tweak things as we play.
TheGenerator says:
... Another player can look up their facebook profile and give you details ...
Yep, a Task Chain. A simple one, though, so it might not need to be played out. This is an advantage of an NPC hacker, they are often 'the man in the chair' and don't get quite as much 'play' as other roles. Where needed we can assume Abby is helping you guys when you need it.
Pedrop says:
... waiting for everyone to confirm if they want to interact ...
Yep. That becomes untenable. I do find that, after a while, a group settles into a status quo where we know who will jump in and add their rolls and who won't, so we don't end up waiting for everyone. I often have a 'Waiting' thread for people to simply post that they are not going to be involved, but I almost never see that being used.

I believe Traveller's Task Chains will work better, they are fairly explicit and obvious. We might end up assuming they are happening and proceed in such a way that either outcome is still viable as far as possible.
Pedrop says:
... able to answer only every 24h... one roll could take almost a week ...
No. It should not take more than two days, at worst. It often does take longer, but that is because I am not very strict about the '1 per day' thing, but, if I were, 24 hours after the post everyone would have answered and then we have, at most, another 24 hours for the OP to post the conclusion.

If things get too slow and someone does not respond, I do sometimes 'skip and move on' after a day or two. If it still makes sense when people get back I seldom find it breaks things when they fill in what they were doing during that process, though often when they post it tries to change history, so a careful read and some discussion is needed rather than a rush to catch up (flashbacks are not time-travel).
Pedrop says:
... GM is very active ...
That makes a big difference. The GM has much more power to slow down a game than any player does.
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Feb 21, 2023 1:13 pm
vagueGM says:
The flip-side of that is that there are systems where you can 'get more for good successes'
Good point, I didn't consider that. I'm usually just happy that I didn't fail, I suppose :P

It's definitely a balance to find in each game, as you say.
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Feb 21, 2023 10:07 pm
Interesting remarks. Thanks for them. Now I have better understanding how we will be probably playing.
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