General Chat

A place for general chatting, about the game or other topics.

Jumping around was getting too irritating, so I have updated the bookmarks in my PDF to include direct access to each Career.

Let me know what else you think would be useful.

I want to make an overview of my character. Where should I put that?
Something like this:

In the sheet somewhere, maybe.

I was just looking for such a summary to see how many Benefits Lio gets. Would be useful to know Ranks and such for when they come up in the story.

You mean my character sheet?
I'd like to put them all together, so we can come up with character links at a glance. Maybe a wiki thread like we have in FFA? Or is there an existing thread that fits?

They need to go on the Character Sheet eventually.

When we get to linking the characters we will need a thread for that, adding them all to that thread will be required.

Go ahead and add yours to the How do we know each other? thread and establish a format for us.

Do we want to think about recruiting another player to this game? Three is a good number, but four would mean we still have three when we end up in the doldrums when one player is absent.

I've seen some mentions of ppl interested in Traveller (either to play or as a GM). So I think we'd be able to find another player if we wanted to. None that I have experience playing with, though. So it's a bit of a gamble.

Both options are fine by me. I'd say it's the GM's choice, what do you feel most comfortable with?

I have no problem with an extra player. But I'd hate for you to go through all the character creation with someone who's bailing out within the first week.

Agreed. I don't foresee any difficulty finding more players if we decide to look.
I honestly don't mind going through the process with someone, even if they were not going to play.
However, forming the Connections and then playing with the results is a large part of the Character Creation appeal. Not having to live with the outcomes makes it less valuable than theorycrafting D&D or Masks characters, though, so --outside of making test characters before a real character-- I don't see that happening, and there are experienced Traveller GMs that could probably do a better job than my scrabbling around the book for each question.

If they decided afterwards that they did not like the game (or that the system would be better suited to a non-PbP medium) and dropped out, I would hold that against them.
A gamble for them too. I am loath to recruit new players into a game that we are not serious about.
We had many option when we started this and Traveller did not win out by such large numbers.

Are we committed enough to this to justify recruiting?

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From my perspective: I keep trying to fall back to other systems, but want to try make this work for a few reasons.

I do want to play something other than PbtA (but the prevalence of PbP and PbtA's suitability to PbP makes that a dominant system in my life these days).

I really like (the theory of) some parts of Traveller.
Using the Characteristics (Stats) as Hit Points is how I prefer to design my own systems, and, while I don't much like large Characteristics from which we derive the actual Dice Modifiers, this is a really good way to do Stats as HP. It allows for low modifiers, while giving enough HP, and provides a nice predictable death spiral with options to mitigate it and escape.
The FTL Jump system with light-speed-information-limits makes for a system where we can outrun our infamy... for a while. This gets around a few common problems with 'space travel' games and consequences.

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Should we recruit one or two more players?

I definitely want to get this game going :)
What I can't promise is that it's a system that will fit me long term. But I wouldn't be able to say that about multiple systems we mentioned.

It looks like you have some parts of the traveller system that you'd really like to explore, vague. So let's make sure those will be in the game we're making.

To re(cruit) or not to re(cruit)... That is the question.
As I said before, I think that's up to you. I'll try to make it work in either case.

Of course not. We can always change it later if we want. Knowing that we want to spend any amount of time in the system is enough to justify recruiting on those terms.
They are core aspects, so they will come up, so worries there.

I guess with TrailHead dropping out, we do need to find more player(s)?

I guess so.

With TheGenerator stating commitment and Airshark suggesting the same I am happy that we can reasonably assure newcomers that the game is sustainable.

I will put together a recruitment pitch towards the end of the weekend.

Will look at getting the recruitment started tomorrow, the server move got in the way. :)

No worries. I'll be on holiday next week. I'll still be able to check in on my phone, but possibly with more delay than usual.

FYI

I am still interested in this game. I actually picked up High Guard 2022 Update and started reading it... but much of it so far was repeats of what was in the Core Rulebook so I lost motivation (I should have skipped to the new parts, but was comparing).

I want to have enough information to set up a game properly for taking in new players.

I was then slightly delayed by the possibility of my needing to play the iron guide, but that did not pan out.

Now though, I am toying with a probably-stupid-idea and need to decide if I want to try that (it won't take long), else I will look at picking this up again with a recruitment if we are still interested.

I'm still interested in the game :)
There's no rush on my end. I'm having fun with WoDu and another game I'm in atm.

The only issue is, I'm going to have to re-read everything that was said in this game so far :P

Me too. Still interested and also, no rush.

Yeah. Me too. Plus all the rules again. But c'est la vie.

I am thinking about posting a recruitment for this game in the next few days. You guys still onboard?

I am.

Though you probably noticed that my fop (frequency of posting) has ups and downs. So if you like to make this a game with more 'action' than ffa, feel free to say so and I will become a reader instead of a player 😉

I am sure we will be able to work around any downs, at least from what I have seen so far you are still regular enough to be considered a 'per day' poster. :)

Depending on who we get, we can revisit this question.

I'm still game :)
Though, the same comment as Airshark. Daily posting getting more difficult lately 😔

Do we think this is a temporary situation or are slowdowns to be considered the new normal?

Both of you have still been posting most days (when expected), so I don't see a need to change the published expectation.

Take a look at the Game Details page and let me know if the very rough, first draft that I wrote fits what we discussed so far. Everything is subject to change, but having something to start from can help with recruiting the right people.

It just depends on how busy the week is with RL stuff, for me :)
Usually daily is not an issue.

I guess part of it (in FFA) is also because we have a 3rd player again. Sometimes you're just waiting for a post from someone.
Seems correct to me.

Some nitpicky comments:
Is missing the word "of". And you've written "payers" instead of "players" somewhere. Hehe :)

Yeah. Many think that PbP should allow for many more players than can comfortably sit around a table, but the more players there are, the higher the chance of one of them being slow at any point.
Oh no. That was deliberate. I expect you to PAY! :)

Haha! :D
I have a feeling the dice will make me pay pretty quickly ;)

New players added. Recruitment it still open if you want to go over there and have your say.

I have done a bit of reorganising. Mainly I moved the Character Creation stuff, as well as the stuff related to what we were playing and the setting into a subforum to keep thing neater. You might want to Subscribe to the Setup subforum is are relying on notifications.

Let's maybe consider our existing Connections as suggestions and start anew once the new characters get to the point of making connections. you are, of course, more than welcome to make the same connections again.

@Airshark and @TheGenerator: Do either of you want to start over again with a new character? Sometimes it can be hard to reconnect to someone made so long ago, and the shape of the world may have changed enough that you want to try for someone else.

Hi all! Looking forward to play with you!

Again: Thanks for adding me. I'm really excited to try "this famous Traveller"! :) Especially that recently I'm trying to choose a system targeted at sci-fi, to play IRL with my two sons(for longer time). I'm also looking at Coriolis and Stars Without Number at the moment. But started with a little, free game called Spacer - a descendant of Knave(basically its sci-fi version)... but I'm starting to feel bothered by the lack of skills in this rulesets. I so far I like traveler for its semi-simulation approach, its attention to details, ready star maps with worlds to explore and its general positive(?) attitude - not-dark(like in i.e Coriolis) at least.

So my question is: is it proper to discuss experiences with other sci-fi systems here in this thread? I should start a new thread for this? Or I should keep discussions like that out side of this game? I was thinking that as some of us will learn and experience this system for the first time, we could discuss difference to other systems as the ideas will come. But will completely understand if vagueGM will want to keep such discussions outside of this game. Was just wondering if other players and/or GM are interested in this "system comparison/looking for 'perfect' system - fun" thing too? As I love to analyze rulesets :)

Absolutely. If it ever becomes large enough to need its own thread the discussion can be taken elsewhere, but this seems like the perfect place for that. This thread is even open for people not in this game to chime in, though it probably is not the best place for such a scoped-discussion since they will lose it rather quickly with the way the site handles such things.
There are other systems as well, but what you described in the recruitment thread led me to believe Traveller was a good option.

The one other one that came to mind, but was not mentioned as Starforged. You can take a look at Ironsworn for free to get a feel for how it works. While it does play OK as a Guided game (with a GM running things) it really is meant for playing without a GM, so there might be a few too many Moves and mechanics for what you are looking for. If you want to play with your boys rather than running for them it might be something to look into.
I found Stars Without Number to be an interesting read, but it felt rather flat --and, dare I say it, boring-- in play. The GM side of that was the most functional, but it left players without much actual ability to do anything. I picked up Worlds without Number (the fantasy version), but have not been able to work up the motivation to read it yet.

Coriolis is the Year Zero engine, isn't it? I could not get into that, as you say, it is a bit dark. The only one of the Year Zero games I thought really made that ruleset work was the Alien one (unless I am misremembering), but that is also too dark and 'horror' for my general tastes. Alien is still on my list of games to try though.
I must take a look. I was impressed with Knave, and it is what I would reach for if I had to run OSR.
I got that impression, which is why I did not mention Offworlders when we spole before. And hey, look, it is free again. It is World of Dungeons in space, and does a pretty good job, but I also found it a little too shallow. Space/sci-fi games can benefit from a little more mechanical structure.
While I tend to prefer lighter systems these days, Traveller seems like it will get out of the way when we want it to, and should be able to do what we want in most situations. I do worry it might be a little bit too rules-heavy, and am having to keep reminding myself that I like a lot about it when I find myself slipping back to PbtA.
While we are not using them (unless we do, everything is still open for discussion) I was tempted by the plethora of systems and information on https://travellermap.com/. Aside from the suspect handling of Aliens as humans-with-a-single-difference, I have quite liked what I have seen.

@vagueGM, Although it's been a while since char creation, and I'd need a bit of time to see what Ronny was all about again, I remember being pretty happy with how it turned out. So I'll stick with what I've got.

The connections that were made can be reinvented. I know we based a few things on Trailhead's "lost in space" event, which I imagine can be cut out now.

Same here. Though it was fun creating a character, I'm gonna stick with this one.

We can decide if any of that happened. There was some interesting stuff in there with regard to the Scout Services and possible governmental corruption or coverups which we may keep unless it conflicts with anyone else's Character Creation.

If the character still exists/existed you all can keep them as a past acquaintance, but it will not count towards the two Connections that have mechanical impact. But it is probably easier to just forget about them.

Great. So I will continue with this discussion:)
I fact I was Starforged's backer at KS and this system really does seem interesting too me. And is focused at what I would like for us in sci-fi: ships and exploration, endless possibilities. But for now I have I crossed it off my "potential winner" list as there is a lot of reading in foreign language(or even if I would translate it to our native language) at those many, many Moves available there especially for 7 and 9 year olds. And I think it is very structured - what I like, but it is only good for older players in my opinion. So they may loose interest in it. What I need for now is something more free-form and it's ability to add new mechanics gradually with time. Travaller indeed seems to have that.
I have heard/read such opinions about SWN and it worries me. But I will see into that: as it is my next read/check.
Yes. It is Year Zero engine. And I couldn't get into this engine too at first... "What you only roll MANY d6 and check how many sixes you have?!? Not only that, you usually only look for one 6 at thats it. Or for three sixes for critical(wishing for 666 also is too dark for my taste... :) ) Could there be a more boring mechanic?"

But then I noticed some nice things in different iterations of this system: almost every skill(when you do a skill check) allows you to spend additional sixes after first one for some special and well defined effect. I like it. It's more like a "skill tree" not flat skill list. In Alien and Forbidden Lands you can roll with different dice i.e. in Alien part of them are for skill+atribute and the rest could be for stress. And when you get 1 on stress dice something bad happens. Simple but elegant. I don't think there are such things as using additional success for something defined in Travaller? You either succeeded at your roll or you didn't. There are only degree of success and failure, am I right? But I like it also - it's much better then plain 1 or 0, success or failure like in DnD.

So I heard somewhere that in Traveler when you are very good at some skill you "almost always" hit with it, what could get boring. But looking from "simulation" pov it makes sense - expert pilots almost never crash at landing:) So it is logical - and I like it! But in Year Zero Engine you can have a lot of dice in a pool and still don't pull it through. More cinematic for sure... and I like it too... :)

In addition in Coriolis there is this "meta" currency. "Darkness points"... bleh... :) Again I don't like the name of those and thematic explanation: you reroll your dice, praying to this RPG system's gods, but for the balance sake you give something to the darkness between the stars(and GM) to retaliate on you later.

I have personal rule/opinion that it is never beneficial for you to "upload to your brain" dark or disgusting things. There is a reason they are (called) "dark" or "disgusting" so whether or not you believe in some divine being(I do) or just from psychology pov - I don't see any point in doing that. So I also don't like darker or horror thames. And certainly I don't like to serve that to my children's brains:) Yes, of course there is evil in our and other universes but we should try to fight(even if only personally - within us) it, not making it as ours central focus.

In Alien there is this Stress mechanic - you can reroll your dice but you get stress, what adds some diece to your pool but if you roll 1 on stress dice - you panic. I like the concept a lot. As it is with a push your luck aspect. And thats good. But again I'm not sure I want to introduce such scenes to my children.

But I heard that in traveller companion there is this new attribute Luck - haven't have time, but it also works as some kind of meta currency AFAIK? Like beanies in Savage Words?

In Coriolis ships also don't have jump drives - you have to go through fixed and controlled by "government" "portals". That is also a big no-no for me, as what is the point of having game in your imagination, where you have freaking space ship, infinite stars and systems and you only can go to restricted places? It's that freedom and endless possibilities that drives me to sci-fi themes. But thats "only" a Coriolis setting. And to be honest: for what I'm looking right now is nice rulesets and I don't want to be restricted by some given setting - again I want freedom and setting and maps are only good for inspiration for me.

So in right now I'm still considering to take only mechanics from Coriolis and run it with Traveller approach... but still not sure about that. Or maybe Alien with some home rules will be better, but I'm afraid it is less focused on space ships and exploration... the Coriolis.

Apart from skill/test resolution in Sci-fi systems right now I'm looking at two things: fighting system and space ship battle system. And I must say... that they are - in the end of the day - very similar in Traveller and Coriolis... I think Coriolis was taking a lot of inspiration from Traveller(no wonder: ). I'm curious if they are admitting it somehow(I'm not claiming they are not). In Coriolis it's the Engineer that distribute the power to other systems - becomes as important as pilot and gunner. Sensor guy can turn off modules on enemy ships not only lock them. And those systems in Coriolis seems a little more structured end elegant:( Bordgame'y maybe? And I like that... What is a pity... as I would like to stay with general Traveller attitude... and don't won't to make such conversions.

Im also looking into Firefly RPG and its very interesting Cortex Prime but very briefly. Contest mechanic seems interesting/unique? Checked Savage Worlds ship combat and Genesys... but as I like those system a lot, those approaches didn't click for me so far.

Ok... it is a LOT... that I have written already... so I will try to end this paragraph with definition how my "perfect" sci-fi system would look like... but maybe in next post... :)
Yes. Knave and Spacer are really interesting animals. Spacer have even space combat in it's 16 pages document! And they seem to work, but haven't checked them in practice... But seems JUST A LITTLE to simple for me... no distance in those combats... and I feel distance should be important in space combat... But... there is this hit - not hit and criticals of d20... I like granulation of Traveller or PbtA systems or even Coriolis when additional sixes/successes provide you with additional possibilities.

And the lack of skills... the items in those system should take the role of skills as far as I understands them... but I couldn't feel that in practice and as far as I know there is no direct impact of items on rolls? Maybe sometimes they give advantage but thats all?
I looked into it earlier. I really liked what I saw... but only for one-shots, shorter games. It seems as "closed package" and I want something that I want to extend when I need. Indeed to shallow - but perfect for other occasion probably.
Yeah! I feel you man! I really feel very similar. Knave/Spacers are really good... but this is space... and there is this "science" in sci-fi... and I want to know how many lasers I have on my ship and if they will be good for those shields... and how much time it takes to mars... when you have this even theoretical engine. Science is fascinating. And it's the part of this "setting". So it have to have some "crunchy" places... :) But they should be in perfect balance.
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Yes. I have seen that. Mind blowing. But I like it for inspiration. I can show my players some system, how many planets there are and what are general ideas for them... thats all I need - not to waste my time on drawing them:)

Indeed. It really is meant for players who can do it on their own.

I do find that this is where rules-lite games are at their best, where the group is already relying on the GM to tell them the rules. These games tend to work with very new players --who need the GM to decide for them anyway-- and very experienced players who can interpolate the implied rules, but for the in-between --which is most-- I have found players quickly struggle with the 'lack of options' they are given, I don't agree that OSR, or WoDu, or rules-lite are 'good for new players' much beyond the first introduction or one-shot.
I have never been a fan of binary success. Even in early DnD I always took into account how much you missed by, or how well you succeeded. A miss by 1 does not seem very fun.

While Traveller implies it is optional, I expect most rolls to care about the Effect Level, and in more detail than they imply. Just like with their Combat rules, I expect the actual (Effect) number to matter. But we will need to see how that plays out, there are obviously times where there is no scale to care about and we either succeed or fail, but those are the less interesting situations.
True. Though remember that the fiction of the situation creates a lot of what YZ tries to do with mechanics. In Traveller --and in any game-- you can garner yourself 'additional successes' through narration of the stakes and actions, though you have to do that before you roll (all games are 'fiction first').

While it is not exactly the same thing, I prefer not to have these things defined by the game system. I was quite interested in the AGE engine with its additional features on every dice roll (Stunts), I like complex dice rolls that do a lot for each roll (take a look at Mausritter's Magic roll). But quickly got frustrated that all those cool and fun actions could only be done if the player got the right numbers on the Stunts-match: By the rules you can only knock someone down, for instance, if you rolled a Stunt and got the relevant number... that is not right. It could be cool for new players who don't think about doing more than 'hit troll with axe' but as soon as they start to get creative, it becomes a restriction. I want the rules to get out of my way, and not make the more exiting actions harder (though sometimes swinging from the chandelier does add more risk) or less rewarding.
I don't think Traveller can handle really high numbers. I am inclined towards treating the starting limits (+3 and +4) as the highest we can get, even after the start. I think it will be hard to increase those high numbers, so it might not matter, we will see.

I can see it being hard to miss on a Average Difficulty roll with +3 from a Characteristic and +4 from a Skill, and even a Difficult roll will be almost guaranteed, but that just means that that character does not need to roll for things others would find 'difficult' and ends up dealing with issues that are Formidable or Impossible for others.

There is a real danger in getting stats up so high that we are not challenged in the area we specialise in. It is boring when we only roll for the things we did not focus on. I think Traveller might benefit from well-rounded characters rather than specialists with high numbers?
I am seldom a fan of 'bennies' in most forms and did not like that part of Savage Worlds. I have seen them done well in some games (Cypher System comes to mind), and seen some really good uses of Stress (Blades in the Dark, Nahual, Impulse Drive?), and was really impressed with with the clever way Flying Circus tied Stress back into XP and advancement, forcing the players to engage with both the push-your-luck Stress mechanic as well as the Stress Reduction mechanic.
I have seen that on the character sheet. We can maybe look at that later if we think it necessary.

I am seldom a fan of 'luck' as a mechanic in games. Monster of the Week handled it rather well, but it was a lot of work and often got forgotten or misused. I see in the most recent --silent-- update that they fiddled with the Luck amounts, but I am not sure it helps the problems.
That can actually be a lot of fun, but it is a system we could easily implement in Traveller without any changes to the rules, and having this sort of thing enforced in the rules --or even just the lore-- limits the options.
It can be frustrating when games 'get it almost right' and we have two almost perfect systems that we want to smoosh together. That is often tricky and takes a lot of time, but we have all done it. :)
Hopefully I don't get shot, or get my 'indie-card' taken away. But take a look at Starfinder. They did a lot of stuff right and there is a lot to steal from there. I constantly found myself impressed with their rules till I realised that they were 'solving problems that I did not have' (i.e. DnD problems). But they were solving them in clever ways.

I particularly liked (I assume since these are the only points I remember) the way they used high-tech shields and armour as a second layer of HP (addressing the silly binary '1 HP is as effective as 100' aspect of DnD/Pathfinder), and that they handled Initiative correctly --though only in space, in land battles they go back to doing it the wrong way round-- those with higher Initiative act later, so they can react to the choices of those with lower initiative. Outcomes are resolved after everyone has acted.

All this makes for rather fun and detailed battles. Though the rest is still pretty standard DnD, which means 'lacking in most things that are not fighting'. :(
That is one of my criticisms about all their games. People go on and on about how pretty they are, but I don't actually care about artwork --and often think it can be a hindrance since it stifles imagination. I agree their books are pretty, but found the text and mechanics a bit lackluster.

They felt like board games, much like Fantasy Flight's Star Wars games. But that is just me.
Cortex (don't ask me which one) has so much potential, though there a balance issues which make it difficult to play for long. I have only used Leverage, though. I don't often use pre-made settings, so did not play or read their Firefly despite having it there on my shelf.

I don't have time right now for proper answer... But my thought is simple:

So... lets design our own "perfect" sci-fi system together? :)) I'm not kidding. Somehow I have a feeling that we can pull it through and our views are aligned enough. No pressure, no time restrictions... just for fun:) What you say? I have some "game" that can morph into that: "Perfect" sci-fi game
Of course we can use different place for this. I think you maybe experienced enough and I not-experienced enough to have a good points of view on the subject.

Just my thought:)

Ok, never mind that. I think I have figured it out somehow for me. As you can see, I am sometimes overly enthusiastic:) But still I think I will design "my Travaller" based on Year Zero Engine OGL, changing d6s to d6, d8, d10, d12 adding some duel and stealth rules(I have a draft of them) and some interesting variants. Not that I would refuse any help or participation, but I realize that such a quick proposal sounds not very serious :)

I am not currently doing game design work. There are so many systems out there that I still want to try that spending the time on 'making the perfect system' is just not feasible. Good luck with it, though.

Understandable and reasonable:) Of course - so obvious that maybe not even worth mentioning - there is not such think as perfect system. There is not even such thing as "perfect system for me". I'm fully aware of that. What I meant was "the best system I can get for this case - for me". But seeing how many iterations of YZE there are I may be not the only one that felt that feeling. And seeing how popular they are... there may be still space for such system for others to enjoy too... maybe:)

"Perfect system" is a joke/playful term for me. And I use it with that assumption in my mind... :)

Sure, every system has some small niggle, but trying to 'fix just that small thing' so often reveals why it was done that way and that 'fixing' it means significant parts of the rest of the system need to change... in subtle ways.

If you are the only one who will be using the system (along with your table, presumably), then mashing together the bits you like works fine, you have the understanding and willingness to work on any rough patches that show up. The more people you get involved the harder that process becomes.

With us all active in the How do we know each other thread I think I am happy with the four players and characters we have.

Should I close the recruitment for this game?

Yeah, I think we can start with the 4 of us and see how things go. I'm already quite overwhelmed with all the char creation info right now :P

@WhtKnt and @Airshark: I worry the Where do we start thread has gotten away from us a bit. We really do need your input before it goes too far to catch up to.

How are you guys doing? Is there anything we can do to get you into the discussion?

To be honest. It's a lot of text, combined with a new game, it feels a bit like work. But I know it's something to get through so I'll get cracking!

Keep it simple.

Remind (or tell) us how you know (at least two of) the other PCs.
Grab two Skills learned from those Connections.
Grab two Skills from the Package.

Tell us how you think Lio is involved in the stealing of a ship from a Navy Depot (working mothballed ship storage). In as much or as little detail as you want.

I will have something up in the next day or so. Things got very busy here.

No worries. Let us know if you need anything to help you sift through all that has been written.

Welcome back @WhtKnt. I hope things you and your family are doing as well as can be expected.

Let us know if there is anything you need from us to get caught up. But don't feel rushed.

We're okay, thank you. I may be a little stuttery until after the funeral (Feb. 10) because family from both sides (mine and hers) are coming for the funeral, but I should a least be able to post every other day or so.

The slowed pacing is not a problem.

As a bit of a silly side-not. In a different game I'm playing in, I created a niece for my character called "Anny". But the GM probably misread it while writing back and switched it to "Abby". So... Now I have 2 games where I'm directly linked to a person named Abby. :P

I'm sure that won't be confusing at all ^^

Good luck convincing your jealous ex-girlfriend that you did not just call her by the name of another girlfriend, that "Anny is my niece... no I meant Abby..." :)

Gonna move this conversation here.
I've seen this in games too. I guess it's used as a way to speed up play. The downside is (and this is something I know vagueGM does often) sometimes your just succeed without a roll. If your RP is spot on, it might just work straight up. And that's always better than a chance to fail. When you roll, the dice decide the outcome instead of you :)

It comes down to the GMs preference, I suppose.

Another advantage to rolling later, in my eyes, is that before the roll your team members have a chance to join your action. Like if you're trying to get past a guard and you're talking to them. Another player can look up their facebook profile and give you details about the guard to help your talk with them.

However if you roll already and it fails, then that would imply that the guard already doesn't believe you and that other player has to do something to 'save' you from the situation or do damage control.

It's a different approach. I don't see it as the good or bad way of doing things.

Completely agree. I wasn't "showing" that cyberpunk example as something "better". Just was trying to describe better about what I'm talking about by "rolls in advance".

Personally I lean towards "rolling later", as this seems to be more similar to playing RPG in real life(more natural) and provides better interactions between players(as you also stated in your post).

But I can see the reason why many people do it that way: that if we will be waiting for everyone to confirm if they want to interact before the roll... and this everyone will happen to be separated by time zones and be able to answer only every 24h... one roll could take almost a week of confirming... before the actual roll :)

But I'm all for "later rolls" and this game is a little different as GM is very active few times a day and most of the players are too. So it looks that it will work just fine:)

I didn't think you were :)
I like discussing these things and checking out the pros and cons of things :D
Yes, also some game systems (or GMs) ask for a lot of rolls. Which again would slow things down.

The flip-side of that is that there are systems where you can 'get more for good successes', so sometimes players still want to roll and take the risk on a guaranteed success, for the chance of getting something better (a 'critical success', or something). But again, that only comes up after the RP and the group has decided success is almost inevitable.

In something like Blades in the Dark (a very refined ruleset) this process is made explicit, and players can choose to adjust that 'guaranteed success' to 'risky' by pushing the odds (or can adjust a risky roll to safe by giving up some effectiveness). But Blades is not as revolutionary as people tend to think, it is a really just a refinement and codification of the sorts of things people were already doing.
Yeah... though this is a bane in PbP, it can really slow things down and we do have to find a way to shortcut this 'Help' process. In games that have an explicit Help mechanic (many PbtA) it used to be assumed that this needed to come before the roll, the helper puts themself at some risk and, on a very bad or very good roll, might not have any way to affect the roll. That risk to self is part of the rules, but also sometimes feels bad. In PbP (and also live, most times) I almost always rules that such Help rolls come after the main roll, and we only wait for them if they could make a difference. I still find that players throw themselves into the danger "I can't Help (under the rules), but my character would have tried. I won't bother rolling, but assume I was also in there and suffer those same consequence you described :(."

Traveller's Task Chains are pretty structured, and should require us to wait, but we can also work out ways (depending on the fiction) to backfill them after a roll. However, they are not simple Help rolls, and really are their own RP and need to be played out. We will tweak things as we play.
Yep, a Task Chain. A simple one, though, so it might not need to be played out. This is an advantage of an NPC hacker, they are often 'the man in the chair' and don't get quite as much 'play' as other roles. Where needed we can assume Abby is helping you guys when you need it.
Yep. That becomes untenable. I do find that, after a while, a group settles into a status quo where we know who will jump in and add their rolls and who won't, so we don't end up waiting for everyone. I often have a 'Waiting' thread for people to simply post that they are not going to be involved, but I almost never see that being used.

I believe Traveller's Task Chains will work better, they are fairly explicit and obvious. We might end up assuming they are happening and proceed in such a way that either outcome is still viable as far as possible.
No. It should not take more than two days, at worst. It often does take longer, but that is because I am not very strict about the '1 per day' thing, but, if I were, 24 hours after the post everyone would have answered and then we have, at most, another 24 hours for the OP to post the conclusion.

If things get too slow and someone does not respond, I do sometimes 'skip and move on' after a day or two. If it still makes sense when people get back I seldom find it breaks things when they fill in what they were doing during that process, though often when they post it tries to change history, so a careful read and some discussion is needed rather than a rush to catch up (flashbacks are not time-travel).
That makes a big difference. The GM has much more power to slow down a game than any player does.

Good point, I didn't consider that. I'm usually just happy that I didn't fail, I suppose :P

It's definitely a balance to find in each game, as you say.

Interesting remarks. Thanks for them. Now I have better understanding how we will be probably playing.

Maybe this is my fault?

I was under the assumption that we want to get to the ship heist without too much of a distraction along the way. I thought this was the idea from the start. I remember you saying something like "why are we playing another day when we can just go to the ship right now?". So I took that as, vague wants us to get to the actual ship mission. My initial idea was that we each narrate the 20-ish hours we had left before the mission. Quick and easy, maybe one or 2 rolls and we're at the ship.

But then you threw in the computer 'side-quest' and getting to the ship (in real life time) seems to be getting delayed more with every step. Hence I figured I'd try to speed things up with a few suggestions :)

I'm not against playing it all out, it was purely a time-saver idea.
But I guess I may have misunderstood the intent of that comment?

---

I also realize that all this discussing things is delaying everything even more. Sorry about that ;)

No need to be faulting anyone. I really do mean it when I say I don't mind how much detail we have here, and that you guys get to decide (roughly) how long any scene should take.
This is the Ship heist, it is all part of it.
That was in-game. Your characters decide to wait another in-game day and squander their advantage of being the first people to know there was trouble brewing. I was literally asking why we wanted to do that. But it was a question, and I don't mind the decision.
If you choose to think of getting the ship as your main quest, then everything is a 'side-quest', getting there is a side-quest, powering it up and hot-wiring it might be a side-quest, getting away might be a side-quest. Or each step needed (collecting the team, getting the hardware and software we need, and so on) could be thought of as parts of the main quest.

This is something you 'need to do' before going to the ship, so it is a step in the main quest. It is, however, optional --Abby will make do without the specialised software or hardware-- so it could be viewed as a 'side-quest'.

I say again: We can spend as much or as little time on any of this as you guys want. We can engage as many or as few mechanics, Skills, or rolls, as you guys want. I am literally asking the question "how much playtime do you want to give this?"
Yes. I am getting the impression people are feeling that way (I do not feel that way). If that is the case we can skip this. But, we are actually playing the game, this is part of the game not a 'delay'. We only need to speed it up or skip it if we don't want to play this part. But then you guys do need to tell me what part you want to play, so we can focus on that. I am happy with whatever is decided.
Everyone else can voice their opinions as well. It is no problem at all for me.
Not really. It is not like people are waiting to see the outcome before posting their replies. If it clears up our understanding of how the game should run that is good.

Oh, okay. I took that as "why do you want to play out another day?". I see now what you meant. So, I did misunderstand it. But that ship has sailed :D

Ok, dear fellow players(by that I mean also GM - of course)? What we do next? As getting this computer and the hacking software can be as simple as in example: "buying specific gun for the heist with a simple dice roll" or indeed some side-quest.

But let's assume that we have only those two things to do before going to the city starport and Bob's Gig, ok? Let's not add other side quest? As I feel this is current intention of most of us?

I guess there can be only one poll per post???

Gosh... those are not easy questions... even thou I have written them myself:D

I think it will be more fun if everyone is there. Doesn't mean everybody has to be inside, we can always communicate remotely.

Character Sheet

In looking through the character sheets to collate Skills and Characteristics I found that the layout might need a little tweak. I think, in play, we will need to reference the Skills and Characteristics at the same time, and the block of Finances spills them off the screen from each other on slightly smaller screens.

I suggest we move that second block to below the Skills, that way the Finances and Other live with the Weapons and Equipment.

What say you guys?

I can easily do the copy paste for you if you don't want to fiddle with the BBCode. Once the incision point have been found it is easy to do more.

Makes sense
I changed mine in the way I think you mean. Is that correct?

Yep. That is what I was proposing.

I have not given any thought to the bottom part of the sheet. If we do a lot of Combat we might want the Weapons and Damage part closer to the Skills? I think we might need that more often than the Finances block? (On other sites I sometimes recommend having the most often referenced parts at the top and bottom since it is easier to move stright to those two locations than to a specific part in the middle, but GP has a large footer that make that less useful, so a top focused sheet makes more sense).

Done. But I have put Finances even under Equipment as I think that could be the priority order:
-skills,
-weapons,
-equipment,
-finances

Can I leave it that way?

That looks good. We can decide on the right layout as we use it, but your order does seem appropriate. There are benefits to having everyone on the same layout, it makes it easy to quickly look something up at a glance, but we don't have to keep them the same if we don't want to.

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I am thinking the Weapons and Equipment tables should maybe be single column, they contain long lines that might be neater if they don't wrap onto two lines. What do you think?

For me "Other equipment" seems as waste of space. One could put these items in Abilities or Equipment sections. Armor feel the same, as probably like 95% of time there will be no or 1 position. So my proposition is:
- changing Weapons section into "Weapons & Armor" - one-position table of Armor should be under Weapons table. Whole section could be 1 column.
- Equipment and Augments sections could be 2 columns in the same row.
- I would delete Other Equipment section entirely.

It is hard to tell how valuable each separate section is till we have played a bit more. They do each have their own 'columns', but those can easily be listed in text form right after the name of the Gear item.

However, keeping Weapons separate from other stuff could allow us to turn that table into a 'Roll Table' where we can click on the item to enter its damage value straight into the roller. Having 'damage' and 'range' columns can be useful for comparing, but only if we end up with a lot of choices.

There is plenty of space to scroll down.

I have edited my sheet to show what I meant. But I still think armor is taking/wasting too much space, so I would move it above "Characteristic DMs" snippet. What you think?

That Weapons table looks much better, no? Did you happen to take a screenshot of the before? Yours was the only one with enough detail to spill over into two lines per item, so we don't have something to compare against.
That might be true, but we should assume there is a reason they laid it out like that. Some people may have many sets of Armour or many Armour items, just because we have only one item does not mean the table is not needed.

We are not bound by the paper size of the sheet, so there is little harm making this longer and needing to scroll. But, as we see with the Skill summary tables, there are some places where we care about that, so having the Skills in multiple columns is good, but the rest should each fit well enough on their own screen.

I'll adapt mine when the order is set ;-)

Of course I did: Full backup of the sheet:)

In my current sheet I did with armor section what I really meant - it looks good in my opinion. And has some place for other armor sets. What you think?
Additional bonus is that keeping armor near the stats - which are HP in Traveller - makes a lot of sense IMHO.

Less scrolling will not hurt in may opinion:)

That is true. Armour and HP sorta go together.

I just worry that that list might get long.

What does everyone else think?

Looks fine to me.
I'm almost never using GP on mobile, so it doesn't matter very much for me.

Good 👍. I'll change it when I'm not on mobile ☺️

Give a shout if you want me to make the change for you, it is no big deal.

That would be great!

Done.

I seem to be having an unexpected busy weekend. Apologizifications

That's not a real word!

VagueGM, you mentioned "7th sea" in OCC thread. I was always curious about this system as its rules... after reading them from QuickStart PDF's(2nd ed)... seemed as almost unneeded, so free form/will that I'm not sure you really should roll those dice and could only look at your character sheet and see with what he is good at. Almost no structure. Somehow even less than in Dungeon World(which I like v. much). What are your experiences and opinions on this system? 1st or 2nd edition?

I did not read 2nd very far, it seemed to have lost the elements that made 1st interesting. It is still (maybe) on my list.

It has been a very long time since I looked at 7th Sea, so I don't recall details, but it had a fair bit of structure and rules. Reading Quickstarts can often be misleading as they might --as it sounds here-- leave out the intricacies of the rules that are in the actual books.

---

I mentioned 7th Sea in the context of Initiative, so let's see if I can remember enough of those rules as an indication of how not-freeform it is:

You roll a number of d10s (based on your Panache Score? and some situational bonuses?), those are your actions, you lay them out along the bottom of your character sheet in slots provided.

The GM then starts counting (backwards?) from 10. On each number, those who have a Die showing that number get to take one action for each Die on that number.

I did a brief look into 7th Sea 1st edition some time ago, and it indeed looked much more structured and interesting. It was mostly the 2nd edition that I was curious - if it is so "simplistic". Do you recommend 1st edition if someone like the setting?

I can not say. I never found a situation where it was the right fit for any game we wanted to play, there were always better options, and I am not sure I would play it. But if you like it, then try it.

Interesting! About what are you thinking? What are the best rules for this kind of setting in your opinion?

I don't really do 'best'. And such judgements depend heavily on the group and the specifics of what was being sought after, so I can't really 'recommend' anything.

If you are looking for Pirates, there is the new Ironsworn Starforged Sundered Isles material. I was rather impressed with Poison'd by Vincent Baker, though people say it is a hard game to grok.

Yes the book is a collection of "short stories" - so somehow disconnected episodes of Pirx life... but somehow they make a cohered whole. And the main character is the same. So it's not normal "short stories" - it's more a book about someone that is not showing a full picture and leaves some blank space to fulfill with your conjecture:)

The book shows in how many styles Lem could write. On English wikipedia there is remark:
And it is probably true. But what is not written there is the one of the reasons Dick was thinking that way about Lem: he simply couldn't believe that one person can write in so many styles with so high quality! So he thought that Lem is not a one person! But Lem was able to do so. And Stories about pilot Pirx - being maybe not the best of his book - shows that very well. Many stories in that book are in different styles. There is one story that is the best "thriller" story I have ever read - the atmosphere is simply amazing.

Not to mention how many things Lem has foretold... including with the proposition that human beings will be replaced by robots someday... and had even written a book that is from those robot's perspective: when humans are only a wired oddity for robots, long gone or kept around just for fun: Fables for Robots - from 1964 - and only recently people are "amazed" about Elon Musk's ideas that we are only a biological boot loader for AI and "artificial" life.... :)

13 Things Lem Predicted About The Future We Live In :)

And he wrote mostly in communist Poland so was somehow separated from information flow and technology news...

I also recommend to find somehow read and check his "short story"(this time for real) called: "Do you exist Mr Jones? " - about 25 pages.

Meta subject - but connected with this game:

As I'm still fascinated about idea of connecting TTRPG rules with some skirmish/war-games rules(like i.e. Stargrave or Frosgrave) - for bigger, but faster battles. So you play your RPG system normally, and when you get to bigger battle - you go with some skirmish game rules. So I'm going to test some rules for this - here on GP solo or with someone willing to join.

But what it has to do with this game - you may ask? ;)

It simple - I like very much some meta things between games - so I would really love to have my next skirmish game "happening" in the world of this game. So there will be a battle - probably because of the coming war - somewhere in our's game universe. Or PC may heard about it in the news channel or... not. Most probably it will have ZERO influence on our story - on character level. But if you will something interesting in the outcome of this battle, maybe GM will be willing to incorporate it our story.

So:
1. I wanted to ask - if you are ok with that?
2. Do you want to work with me on backstory/couse of this coming battle that will be concise with your view of the world of this game? GM mentioned some world building in the game prompt, so probably it could go into that bucket too?
3. Maybe you have already some ideas what could be the backstory of the coming battle?

Next rules I want to test are Space Weirdos. Probably there will be only two sides. Any ideas? Someone want to join me with those test and world building?

I have never found introducing a new system for one part of a game to make things 'faster'. And not everyone will be interested in skirmish games, so only some will be involved in that part. Such splits are something I avoid.
Play by post seems like a particularly bad way to do skirmish games, but that may just be my ignorance.
I have no objections to you using anything form this story in your own games. But I will not be following along with what is happening there, so the most you could hope for it to affect our world would be if you have your character hear rumours of what happened there. There rumours may or may not be true.

It might affect the places you want to go next, changing your plans, or might change who is in power at any place you go to, but I don't have any of that planned out, so this is no different to how it will be run already: You tell me what is happening.

Unless everyone at table know the rules or played the skirmish game outside the RPG and like skirmish games... :) This approach not for everyone:)
Probably you are right. I will do it for the first time. But it is only way for me to try those rules right now. And PbP have one advantage: I can make one move a day or every few days. Not taking to much time. Besides I'm planing too use owlbear.rodeo - so maybe it will be not so bad?
Ok. Good. Not expecting fallowing along, only prompt for making a backstory for the battle. And I will report back what will be the result of the battle (and if anything significant happened there) and we could be using this info here or not...:)

I'd also prefer not to do that in this game. I find the game is already complicated enough :D Sorry.

I think you'd be better off setting up a game for it yourself and seeing who is interested in trying such a system. There's bound to be others who would like to try.

No, no:) No in this game. It will be separate game on GP. I was thinking only of keeping both games in the same world/universe and events from one game could - if we will be liking that - have some influence on the other or... just stay at level of rumors... fluff of the world:)

Other subject: shouldn't we recruit one more player? Of course CC should go in parallel to current events, and we will pick up the ready character when he or she will be ready - on our way out from the system or at the destination system - depending when the PC will be ready.

Oh I see :D I misunderstood.
I'd be interested in reading such a skirmish (or at least part). Mostly out of curiosity, just to see how it works.

I'm happy to add another player, but I'll leave that up to vagueGM.
Do you have someone in mind? Or just use the tavern to recruit?

What say you, @Airshark?

Fine by me!

I asked my fellow skirmish game player, but he/she is capped right now. So I would say let's ask in the tavern and let vagueGM do the recruiting. He has so good eye for great players ;-D ;D

@TheGenerator and others: here's the link to the thread and subform where we are starting to talk about the skirmish backstory and will play the game. It looks that if the other player will like my ideas it will fit quite well in the this game's world story - generated with our PCs creation process.

Thanks! :)

I think I am going to declare this game suspended, indefinitely. If a time comes that when all the players are able to start playing again regularly we can maybe look into picking it back up again.

Thanks all. I enjoyed what were able to do here.

I enjoyed it too. Allthough sci-fi is not really my cup-a-tea.
Thanks to everyone (especially Vague) for all the effort. I guess we are all a bit too busy at this time.

I'll watch out for any notification when the game is picked up again.

I think that's a good choice. Thanks lots for setting all this up, vague. It was fun playing with you guys, but it petered out quite easily (also because of me)

Hi Guys! Last year I was so swamped with work and family responsibilities... that I simply didn't manage to thank for this game and your (especially vagueGM's) effort put into this world. Now it is a little better and I'm checking my earlier games if I could rejoin them. With absolutely no intention to start any new ones and only focus on those I have played back then! As I will definitely have much less game(like 1-3 at maks), I will be able to dedicate even more time to this particular one... So the question is simple:

Any desire to get back to this game??

I think I'm ready to get back to this world - and we only started... back then:) But in the same time had put a lot of time into it...

Hi pedrop.

I am a bit to busy to get back to this game. But feel free to play without me.

Hey Pedrop, it is good to hear that you are OK, we were concerned when you vanished.

I think we have all moved on to other games in the intervening time. I was thinking of archiving this game, but did not want to pull it out from under you and leave you stranded.

I enjoyed the world-building and the characters, and especially your enthusiasm, but fear I may be joining the majority view that 'character creation is the best part of Traveller'. I was less impressed with the gameplay and mechanics, I don't think they are bad, per se, but a bit clunky, and especially too slow and involved for PbP.

I don't think I want to pick this one up again at this time.

Yeah... that was a harsh period for me back then... and I still feel bad about leaving without the word... but it was... 'today, evening... I will answer my games...'. And then the evening came and I was completely exhausted... "Ok, next day I will do it, after work..." (saying that at 3 am... And so on... And before I realized it was month or more... and figured out that no one is probably still waiting for me. Bleh.... I have a bad taste about myself about this behavior.... but will not change the past:/

I understand... and somehow you managed to distill my thoughts about Traveller - yes, the character creation was very exciting and somehow promised amazing game and world... but then... it somehow slowed down, very, very much. Maybe we have overcomplicated some things? And dive too deep in some unnecessary details? But isn't it a part of Sci-Fi theme? Also: after reading traveller rules it looked like simple, but elastic, crunchy system... but then it didn't delivered somehow. Maybe it's not for PbP? A pity, but you are probably right to leave it as it is.

Thanks again for those few amazing moments we got togheter and the few of those feelings as I would really preparing for the intergalactic journey! Great RP guys! And Lio, Ronny, Abby were a characters that I will remember for some time. They felt very alive!

BTW: So what systems are you preferring vagueGM right now ? For IRL playin and here PbP ? As I'm always interested in new systems - at least teory about them... :)

BTW2: Any games that (any of) you are playing and are looking for players? Assuming that any one of you will want to play with me again... :/

BTW3: For some time now I'm thinking about GMing one-shot in Coriolis, and if I will not manage to get back to any of my previous games I may start it finally. Will any of you be interested in it?

Wasn't in your game AND I'd be interested in trying out a short Coriolis game. Have looked through the book, liked what I saw, but have other things higher up my to-GM list. But would be excited to try playing it.

Hi BeardHare! Glad to know if I will start this game, I will let you know!

It happens and we understand. Don't beat yourself up over it. Most of the players were lukewarm on the system and mainly continuing for your sake (how's that or a guilt-trip :) so there were few complaints when it petered out.
It is definitely not the worst option for PbP, but the task resolution seems a bit too multi-step and complicated, while also being rather too common, to be ideal for PbP. As soon as dice need to come out games slow down, and PbP amplifies that a lot.

If we had kept up with the initial expected posting rate I think it could have worked, but even the slight slowdown we were seeing before the end turned the mechanics into a bit of a slog.
I don't have any new systems since we last spoke on this topic. One system I did think about mentioning to you —but you were away— is 24xx, it has a charmingly simple base ruleset, but does get a little more complicated and defined than it maybe needs to in the later pages (columns). It is still worth taking a look at and could prove versatile enough for most things.

People will look askance at me for saying 24xx has too many rules, but there is stuff in there I think is just unnecessary and limits its flexibility, the core rules are all I would take.

I have been thinking about running a PbP game using the basic resolution rules from Mythic Game Master Emulator Second Edition (Chaos Rank and Fate Chart), I think they could make for an interesting game even with a GM.

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There are still systems I am wanting to try, but that don't work well or at all on PbP, whenever I get a chance to play in person, they are near the top of my list, just so I can get the chance to see them in action.

Games based on Blades in the Dark are difficult in PbP. The need for all the players to be very familiar with the mechanics is massively amplified by the timing issues of PbP. I am still willing to play/run them in this format, but would require all the players to be (or be willing to become) proficient in the way the game;s systems work together. With the right group I think it could really sing. There have been a lot of new Forged in the Dark games since I last looked, and some of them may be worth it.

Probably right up near the top of the list of games I would reach for in a non-PbP setting is The House Does not Always Win. I really like how the cards play into the tone and feeling of the game, and that energy is hard to replicate in PbP, even if the card mechanics (separate piles, and cards moving between them (active, discard, burned, in hand, enemy, and so on)) were supported, there is a visceral aspect that would be lost. I would like to see it in action, and it is simple enough to teach that I would try persuade the next live group to give it a go.
Hmm... I have repeatedly found myself unable to read the Coriolis book, I don't know what it is, but while the artwork is pretty and the world seems somewhat interesting, I struggle to see how this incarnation of the Year Zero Engine will make for fun gameplay. I am always keen to be proven wrong —especially when I have neither properly read nor played a game— so might be persuaded to join this if you run it, but can't really see what all the fuss is about.

Hi Pedrop! Glad to hear you're ok :) Don't worry about the absence, it happens to many of us. You're always welcome back to GP!

As vague said. Even though I enjoyed this game's idea, the mechanics didn't really fit me as well as I thought they would. I think I've lost the ability to enjoy number crunching ^^ So I wasn't very sad when it stopped :P
But the RP side was very enjoyable! Thanks for your contributions.

I agree about you remarks toward Traveller in our game. I like how "logically built" this system is, and take cares for many things like details of flying (and refueling, etc.) space ships, but sometimes it seems like perfect system for Excel fan... (which I am probably, sometimes...). And I prefer my ttRPG to be more about the story, then numbers( even thou I love numbers... :). But by this I mean all mechanics in the rpgs games should be in order to provide some feeling (the most basic is suspension, risk: "will it work for my PC?") and Traveller seams to sometime cross this border and goes into "Fun Excersises for Accountants" area... what maybe somehow "realistic"... but requires all players to like the stuff :)
Yeah... I know and even bought the basic set of those rules quite some time ago:) I also really like the main dice resolution mechanic - simple, but cleaver. But the rest is also somehow lacking for me: too simple(by few notches), to be interesting for me, but too restricting to be easily extendable... So I agree. My first contact with the system made me thing: "This could be it! Let's only add a few things and it will be perfect for me..." But then it didn't clicked, and I've put it in the "fast ruleset for 'party' one shots" shelf in my notes.

Recently I have found "my next big discovery" - system from the guy(AFAIK) that designed FU Universal: Star Scoundrels and Neon City Overdrive - they look really interesting(there is even a game with those rules here on GP), but haven't bought them yet as I didn't have time to read them. But checked some videos, previe images and they seem very interesting and elastic enough.
Do you care to point me into direction where I can read how it works or write a few sentences about it? As I'm always interested in dice/resolution mechanics in RPG's? :)

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Yeah I have encountered quite a few instances where game on the BitD engine didn't last long in the PbP games. To be honest haven't seen a longer game of it in this format. But the system is certainly interesting for me.

BTW: have you seen: In the Dark - looks promising, but still on my reading list - haven't time to analyze it some more.
Yes! I also have its demo downloaded to my "To read" folder - indeed looks VERY interesting. Let me know if you will check/experience it someday. I'm really interested to listen how it worked out:)
Hehe... somehow I feel you on this! :) I also don't like the book that much. And haven't read it too much... so far. Maybe not so interested in setting. Just scanned the basic rules. Combat rules seems to be a little better in Alien RPG. But what picketed my interest were space ship battles rules - they seem really good on paper. And this potential game of Corliolis GMed by me will be mainly to check those rules.

To be honest I feel you should check their Year Zero Engine Standard Reference Document v1.0 - its my favorite book from Fria Ligan :) Probably because I don't like too many black/dark pages... And only after reading it - it opened my eyes how this Y0E engine could be good, quite easy, flexible but still thematic and focused on story. Without going into too simple, without structure territory. Especially as I somehow prefer "step dice" mechanics, rather then pools of ordinary(boring) d6es... But you have to give them credit for that those d6 pools in Y0E make a nice "push your luck" aspect, that is not so common in other systems.

Speaking of which... do you know systems from Two Little Mice? Especially Outgunned looks promising, and I will want to try it someday too. Also some aspects of push your luck in dice rolls, even better realized then in Y0E.

Apart from mentioned I also didn't find anything extraordinary interesting in recent times, but had no time for it either - so maybe thats the reason :)

Still my favorite rules system is the one from The One Ring™ Core Rules, also from Free League Publishing. I think it's perfect level of balancing crunchiness, incorporating story elements in dice results and thematic fit between mechanics and the setting. But the problem is... I'm not very interested in playing games in Lord Of The Rings setting/world... :D Seems much too restricting for me... So my dream system would be some adoption of this ruleset too Science Fantasy setting.

In fact I'm still working (very slowly ) on my rulesets based on Y0E but with rolling against TN, but with dice pools and dice providing different effect/stunts + push your luck elements:) Maybe I will be ready someday in this year to playtest it here on GP.

Apart from that I got back to very light version of Genesys for narrative and random play with my two sons(thinking how to make pokemon PC for them in this) or my mentioned version Y0E with rolling against TN for some more structured campaign for them in stone punk world. Taking a lot of rules and ideas from Forbidden Lands - for this.

I also would like a simpler version(judging from opinions of other) of Witcher RPG(based on Cyberpunk RED engine) - as somehow I love rolling against TN and exploding dice... :) And am waiting for Knave 2nd ed - too see if it will be my ultimate toolset for playing D&D games in OSR style. As I find D&D 5th as my least favourite rule system, generic and simply boring - "computer RPG"-like.

I also wonder how the new system from Critical Role will come up. First info looked promising. But Candela Obscura(or how is it called?) did not manage to ignite an interest in me... :)

Thanks for good words! All the best for you too. And I concur: the RP part had some real moment of magic!

Yes. Pretty much that. That is a very good explanation.
I have looked at Neon City Overdrive, but not finished reading it, nor found the motivation to bring it to the table. It looks 'good, but nothing special'.

I have not looked at Star Scoundrels. It looks interesting, but I will wait till it is done, I just don't have the time/energy for beta-testing. I like the 'focus on relationships' part, but have been burned by Flying Circus, which promised putting relationships first (and they are important especially to the leveling mechanic, which is cool and requires one to take Stress) but ended up being pages and pages of airplane combat mechanics. :(
I glanced at it. In an effort to 'simplify' things, it removes a few components that are quite important to BitD. Position and Effect are the ones I recall at this time. While they are a bit tricky to get one's head around at first they are a big part of the system and work really well in the context.

BitD is a 'Swiss-Watch' type game, it is not easy to tinker with, and small changes break many things down the line. I suspect this is why so many of the FitD games out there are less than stellar. The only ones that I even think of bringing to the table are Scum and Villainy and Band of Blades (both by Stras, who really understands the system), and CBR+PNK, which slightly broke things in its effort to simplify, but still works well (I have not yet read the second version).
I keep hearing about Outgunned recently, —but not in time for the kickstarter. I plan to take a look at it.
'Push your Luck' mechanics can be fun (a big part of THDAW, with the added benefit of a card stack showing us what could have been if we had pushed more:). But may not be ideal in PbP, since it can slow things down as each 'roll' requires more transactions to conclude.

Have you looked at Push? Its base mechanic is push-your-luck dice done quite well.
I have not gotten round to looking at that system.
I adapted the FFG dice to a FKR system, to add flavour to the occasional rolls.

I have not actually managed to read Genesys, I hear they addressed some of the troubles that FFG Star Wars had, but I never got that system to work for very long.
Knave is my go-to for 'OSR' stuff. I do plan to look at 2e when it is done.

I am not sure if you are asking about how MGME works, or about how I would use it in a GMed game. I am sure you could find descriptions of how MGME works, and it has a lot more than just the Fate Chart (which is the only part of the first edition I remember using, though the second edition has a lot of other cool stuff I would probably use).

MGME is designed for solo play (one player, no GM), though that also works for replacing a GM in a group game (I have never seen it used this way, though:). It has many Oracle Charts and Random Tables and stuff, but, as I said, I only used the base mechanic so far.

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The Fate Chart is the main 'does this work?', 'do we win?' resolution mechanism. You ask a question (ultimately 'yes/no', but that is often disguised behind something that seems more complex:) and decide how likely it is, then roll and compare your result against the % for that likelihood.

There is also a Chaos Rank (1-10) that goes up, over time, as your character(s) lose control of the scenes and goes down as they gain control. The Chaos Rank affects which column of the Fate Chart table one looks at, it adjusts the percentages. If the Chaos Rank does not apply, use the middle column (5).

I have found that, when using MGME to explore new game systems, I often find myself preferring its simple, singular mechanic over what the game gives. The second edition even warns that this might happen, but I don't think it is a bad thing... except when it prevents ones from seeing how the new system works, of course.

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I have thought about taking 'Character and World Creation, and Leveling' mechanics from a game where they are good, and using the MGME Fate Chart when players need to resolve things. We may or may not include a Chaos Rank mechanic, depending on if it fits the theme, and it can be ignored in situations were it does not apply.

The downside of this in PbP is that it requires some pre-roll negotiation, but the upside it that it can replace some mechanics that are very slow to conclude.

For instance, combat can be resolved in a roll or two by asking the questions:

"We outnumber them. Do they flee?" Set it as 'Unlikely' (which is only slightly worse than 50/50).

Failing that we can then reassess and ask:
"Do they beat us?" Set it at 'Very Unlikely' (since we outnumber them, but the Chaos Rank pushes things towards 'yes' answers, so the direction of the question matters.)

If the above (one or two) questions conclude the combat, we can ask about if we paid significant costs (injuries, loss of ammo, whatever is appropriate in the fiction).

If the game system has a 'damage' mechanic that we want to keep, we would adjust the odds/likelihood based on how much damage we do with each hit and how hurt the enemy already is, and so on.

Looks like I had this tab in my browser for about 3/4 of a year now. Being completely drawn in work and some other games I never managed to read it as deeply at it deserves. But today I did:) Thanks for the answers and sorry for "slight" delay ;)

I have MGME on my list to read. Sounds interesting. If you wish to continue this discussion (I wouldn't be surprised if not... :( ) can you tell me how you would compare MGME with Ironsworn - as I think, that I know (from somewhere I don't remember) that you know this system too?

Besides: any new, interesting finds in RPG Systems field [of science ;) ] ?? :)

Hope all is well for you,
Cheers!