General Chat

I am thinking about posting a recruitment for this game in the next few days. You guys still onboard?

I am.

Though you probably noticed that my fop (frequency of posting) has ups and downs. So if you like to make this a game with more 'action' than ffa, feel free to say so and I will become a reader instead of a player 😉

I am sure we will be able to work around any downs, at least from what I have seen so far you are still regular enough to be considered a 'per day' poster. :)

Depending on who we get, we can revisit this question.

I'm still game :)
Though, the same comment as Airshark. Daily posting getting more difficult lately 😔

Do we think this is a temporary situation or are slowdowns to be considered the new normal?

Both of you have still been posting most days (when expected), so I don't see a need to change the published expectation.

Take a look at the Game Details page and let me know if the very rough, first draft that I wrote fits what we discussed so far. Everything is subject to change, but having something to start from can help with recruiting the right people.

It just depends on how busy the week is with RL stuff, for me :)
Usually daily is not an issue.

I guess part of it (in FFA) is also because we have a 3rd player again. Sometimes you're just waiting for a post from someone.
Seems correct to me.

Some nitpicky comments:
Is missing the word "of". And you've written "payers" instead of "players" somewhere. Hehe :)

Yeah. Many think that PbP should allow for many more players than can comfortably sit around a table, but the more players there are, the higher the chance of one of them being slow at any point.
Oh no. That was deliberate. I expect you to PAY! :)

Haha! :D
I have a feeling the dice will make me pay pretty quickly ;)

New players added. Recruitment it still open if you want to go over there and have your say.

I have done a bit of reorganising. Mainly I moved the Character Creation stuff, as well as the stuff related to what we were playing and the setting into a subforum to keep thing neater. You might want to Subscribe to the Setup subforum is are relying on notifications.

Let's maybe consider our existing Connections as suggestions and start anew once the new characters get to the point of making connections. you are, of course, more than welcome to make the same connections again.

@Airshark and @TheGenerator: Do either of you want to start over again with a new character? Sometimes it can be hard to reconnect to someone made so long ago, and the shape of the world may have changed enough that you want to try for someone else.

Hi all! Looking forward to play with you!

Again: Thanks for adding me. I'm really excited to try "this famous Traveller"! :) Especially that recently I'm trying to choose a system targeted at sci-fi, to play IRL with my two sons(for longer time). I'm also looking at Coriolis and Stars Without Number at the moment. But started with a little, free game called Spacer - a descendant of Knave(basically its sci-fi version)... but I'm starting to feel bothered by the lack of skills in this rulesets. I so far I like traveler for its semi-simulation approach, its attention to details, ready star maps with worlds to explore and its general positive(?) attitude - not-dark(like in i.e Coriolis) at least.

So my question is: is it proper to discuss experiences with other sci-fi systems here in this thread? I should start a new thread for this? Or I should keep discussions like that out side of this game? I was thinking that as some of us will learn and experience this system for the first time, we could discuss difference to other systems as the ideas will come. But will completely understand if vagueGM will want to keep such discussions outside of this game. Was just wondering if other players and/or GM are interested in this "system comparison/looking for 'perfect' system - fun" thing too? As I love to analyze rulesets :)

Absolutely. If it ever becomes large enough to need its own thread the discussion can be taken elsewhere, but this seems like the perfect place for that. This thread is even open for people not in this game to chime in, though it probably is not the best place for such a scoped-discussion since they will lose it rather quickly with the way the site handles such things.
There are other systems as well, but what you described in the recruitment thread led me to believe Traveller was a good option.

The one other one that came to mind, but was not mentioned as Starforged. You can take a look at Ironsworn for free to get a feel for how it works. While it does play OK as a Guided game (with a GM running things) it really is meant for playing without a GM, so there might be a few too many Moves and mechanics for what you are looking for. If you want to play with your boys rather than running for them it might be something to look into.
I found Stars Without Number to be an interesting read, but it felt rather flat --and, dare I say it, boring-- in play. The GM side of that was the most functional, but it left players without much actual ability to do anything. I picked up Worlds without Number (the fantasy version), but have not been able to work up the motivation to read it yet.

Coriolis is the Year Zero engine, isn't it? I could not get into that, as you say, it is a bit dark. The only one of the Year Zero games I thought really made that ruleset work was the Alien one (unless I am misremembering), but that is also too dark and 'horror' for my general tastes. Alien is still on my list of games to try though.
I must take a look. I was impressed with Knave, and it is what I would reach for if I had to run OSR.
I got that impression, which is why I did not mention Offworlders when we spole before. And hey, look, it is free again. It is World of Dungeons in space, and does a pretty good job, but I also found it a little too shallow. Space/sci-fi games can benefit from a little more mechanical structure.
While I tend to prefer lighter systems these days, Traveller seems like it will get out of the way when we want it to, and should be able to do what we want in most situations. I do worry it might be a little bit too rules-heavy, and am having to keep reminding myself that I like a lot about it when I find myself slipping back to PbtA.
While we are not using them (unless we do, everything is still open for discussion) I was tempted by the plethora of systems and information on https://travellermap.com/. Aside from the suspect handling of Aliens as humans-with-a-single-difference, I have quite liked what I have seen.

@vagueGM, Although it's been a while since char creation, and I'd need a bit of time to see what Ronny was all about again, I remember being pretty happy with how it turned out. So I'll stick with what I've got.

The connections that were made can be reinvented. I know we based a few things on Trailhead's "lost in space" event, which I imagine can be cut out now.

Same here. Though it was fun creating a character, I'm gonna stick with this one.

We can decide if any of that happened. There was some interesting stuff in there with regard to the Scout Services and possible governmental corruption or coverups which we may keep unless it conflicts with anyone else's Character Creation.

If the character still exists/existed you all can keep them as a past acquaintance, but it will not count towards the two Connections that have mechanical impact. But it is probably easier to just forget about them.

Great. So I will continue with this discussion:)
I fact I was Starforged's backer at KS and this system really does seem interesting too me. And is focused at what I would like for us in sci-fi: ships and exploration, endless possibilities. But for now I have I crossed it off my "potential winner" list as there is a lot of reading in foreign language(or even if I would translate it to our native language) at those many, many Moves available there especially for 7 and 9 year olds. And I think it is very structured - what I like, but it is only good for older players in my opinion. So they may loose interest in it. What I need for now is something more free-form and it's ability to add new mechanics gradually with time. Travaller indeed seems to have that.
I have heard/read such opinions about SWN and it worries me. But I will see into that: as it is my next read/check.
Yes. It is Year Zero engine. And I couldn't get into this engine too at first... "What you only roll MANY d6 and check how many sixes you have?!? Not only that, you usually only look for one 6 at thats it. Or for three sixes for critical(wishing for 666 also is too dark for my taste... :) ) Could there be a more boring mechanic?"

But then I noticed some nice things in different iterations of this system: almost every skill(when you do a skill check) allows you to spend additional sixes after first one for some special and well defined effect. I like it. It's more like a "skill tree" not flat skill list. In Alien and Forbidden Lands you can roll with different dice i.e. in Alien part of them are for skill+atribute and the rest could be for stress. And when you get 1 on stress dice something bad happens. Simple but elegant. I don't think there are such things as using additional success for something defined in Travaller? You either succeeded at your roll or you didn't. There are only degree of success and failure, am I right? But I like it also - it's much better then plain 1 or 0, success or failure like in DnD.

So I heard somewhere that in Traveler when you are very good at some skill you "almost always" hit with it, what could get boring. But looking from "simulation" pov it makes sense - expert pilots almost never crash at landing:) So it is logical - and I like it! But in Year Zero Engine you can have a lot of dice in a pool and still don't pull it through. More cinematic for sure... and I like it too... :)

In addition in Coriolis there is this "meta" currency. "Darkness points"... bleh... :) Again I don't like the name of those and thematic explanation: you reroll your dice, praying to this RPG system's gods, but for the balance sake you give something to the darkness between the stars(and GM) to retaliate on you later.

I have personal rule/opinion that it is never beneficial for you to "upload to your brain" dark or disgusting things. There is a reason they are (called) "dark" or "disgusting" so whether or not you believe in some divine being(I do) or just from psychology pov - I don't see any point in doing that. So I also don't like darker or horror thames. And certainly I don't like to serve that to my children's brains:) Yes, of course there is evil in our and other universes but we should try to fight(even if only personally - within us) it, not making it as ours central focus.

In Alien there is this Stress mechanic - you can reroll your dice but you get stress, what adds some diece to your pool but if you roll 1 on stress dice - you panic. I like the concept a lot. As it is with a push your luck aspect. And thats good. But again I'm not sure I want to introduce such scenes to my children.

But I heard that in traveller companion there is this new attribute Luck - haven't have time, but it also works as some kind of meta currency AFAIK? Like beanies in Savage Words?

In Coriolis ships also don't have jump drives - you have to go through fixed and controlled by "government" "portals". That is also a big no-no for me, as what is the point of having game in your imagination, where you have freaking space ship, infinite stars and systems and you only can go to restricted places? It's that freedom and endless possibilities that drives me to sci-fi themes. But thats "only" a Coriolis setting. And to be honest: for what I'm looking right now is nice rulesets and I don't want to be restricted by some given setting - again I want freedom and setting and maps are only good for inspiration for me.

So in right now I'm still considering to take only mechanics from Coriolis and run it with Traveller approach... but still not sure about that. Or maybe Alien with some home rules will be better, but I'm afraid it is less focused on space ships and exploration... the Coriolis.

Apart from skill/test resolution in Sci-fi systems right now I'm looking at two things: fighting system and space ship battle system. And I must say... that they are - in the end of the day - very similar in Traveller and Coriolis... I think Coriolis was taking a lot of inspiration from Traveller(no wonder: ). I'm curious if they are admitting it somehow(I'm not claiming they are not). In Coriolis it's the Engineer that distribute the power to other systems - becomes as important as pilot and gunner. Sensor guy can turn off modules on enemy ships not only lock them. And those systems in Coriolis seems a little more structured end elegant:( Bordgame'y maybe? And I like that... What is a pity... as I would like to stay with general Traveller attitude... and don't won't to make such conversions.

Im also looking into Firefly RPG and its very interesting Cortex Prime but very briefly. Contest mechanic seems interesting/unique? Checked Savage Worlds ship combat and Genesys... but as I like those system a lot, those approaches didn't click for me so far.

Ok... it is a LOT... that I have written already... so I will try to end this paragraph with definition how my "perfect" sci-fi system would look like... but maybe in next post... :)
Yes. Knave and Spacer are really interesting animals. Spacer have even space combat in it's 16 pages document! And they seem to work, but haven't checked them in practice... But seems JUST A LITTLE to simple for me... no distance in those combats... and I feel distance should be important in space combat... But... there is this hit - not hit and criticals of d20... I like granulation of Traveller or PbtA systems or even Coriolis when additional sixes/successes provide you with additional possibilities.

And the lack of skills... the items in those system should take the role of skills as far as I understands them... but I couldn't feel that in practice and as far as I know there is no direct impact of items on rolls? Maybe sometimes they give advantage but thats all?
I looked into it earlier. I really liked what I saw... but only for one-shots, shorter games. It seems as "closed package" and I want something that I want to extend when I need. Indeed to shallow - but perfect for other occasion probably.
Yeah! I feel you man! I really feel very similar. Knave/Spacers are really good... but this is space... and there is this "science" in sci-fi... and I want to know how many lasers I have on my ship and if they will be good for those shields... and how much time it takes to mars... when you have this even theoretical engine. Science is fascinating. And it's the part of this "setting". So it have to have some "crunchy" places... :) But they should be in perfect balance.
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Yes. I have seen that. Mind blowing. But I like it for inspiration. I can show my players some system, how many planets there are and what are general ideas for them... thats all I need - not to waste my time on drawing them:)

Indeed. It really is meant for players who can do it on their own.

I do find that this is where rules-lite games are at their best, where the group is already relying on the GM to tell them the rules. These games tend to work with very new players --who need the GM to decide for them anyway-- and very experienced players who can interpolate the implied rules, but for the in-between --which is most-- I have found players quickly struggle with the 'lack of options' they are given, I don't agree that OSR, or WoDu, or rules-lite are 'good for new players' much beyond the first introduction or one-shot.
I have never been a fan of binary success. Even in early DnD I always took into account how much you missed by, or how well you succeeded. A miss by 1 does not seem very fun.

While Traveller implies it is optional, I expect most rolls to care about the Effect Level, and in more detail than they imply. Just like with their Combat rules, I expect the actual (Effect) number to matter. But we will need to see how that plays out, there are obviously times where there is no scale to care about and we either succeed or fail, but those are the less interesting situations.
True. Though remember that the fiction of the situation creates a lot of what YZ tries to do with mechanics. In Traveller --and in any game-- you can garner yourself 'additional successes' through narration of the stakes and actions, though you have to do that before you roll (all games are 'fiction first').

While it is not exactly the same thing, I prefer not to have these things defined by the game system. I was quite interested in the AGE engine with its additional features on every dice roll (Stunts), I like complex dice rolls that do a lot for each roll (take a look at Mausritter's Magic roll). But quickly got frustrated that all those cool and fun actions could only be done if the player got the right numbers on the Stunts-match: By the rules you can only knock someone down, for instance, if you rolled a Stunt and got the relevant number... that is not right. It could be cool for new players who don't think about doing more than 'hit troll with axe' but as soon as they start to get creative, it becomes a restriction. I want the rules to get out of my way, and not make the more exiting actions harder (though sometimes swinging from the chandelier does add more risk) or less rewarding.
I don't think Traveller can handle really high numbers. I am inclined towards treating the starting limits (+3 and +4) as the highest we can get, even after the start. I think it will be hard to increase those high numbers, so it might not matter, we will see.

I can see it being hard to miss on a Average Difficulty roll with +3 from a Characteristic and +4 from a Skill, and even a Difficult roll will be almost guaranteed, but that just means that that character does not need to roll for things others would find 'difficult' and ends up dealing with issues that are Formidable or Impossible for others.

There is a real danger in getting stats up so high that we are not challenged in the area we specialise in. It is boring when we only roll for the things we did not focus on. I think Traveller might benefit from well-rounded characters rather than specialists with high numbers?
I am seldom a fan of 'bennies' in most forms and did not like that part of Savage Worlds. I have seen them done well in some games (Cypher System comes to mind), and seen some really good uses of Stress (Blades in the Dark, Nahual, Impulse Drive?), and was really impressed with with the clever way Flying Circus tied Stress back into XP and advancement, forcing the players to engage with both the push-your-luck Stress mechanic as well as the Stress Reduction mechanic.
I have seen that on the character sheet. We can maybe look at that later if we think it necessary.

I am seldom a fan of 'luck' as a mechanic in games. Monster of the Week handled it rather well, but it was a lot of work and often got forgotten or misused. I see in the most recent --silent-- update that they fiddled with the Luck amounts, but I am not sure it helps the problems.
That can actually be a lot of fun, but it is a system we could easily implement in Traveller without any changes to the rules, and having this sort of thing enforced in the rules --or even just the lore-- limits the options.
It can be frustrating when games 'get it almost right' and we have two almost perfect systems that we want to smoosh together. That is often tricky and takes a lot of time, but we have all done it. :)
Hopefully I don't get shot, or get my 'indie-card' taken away. But take a look at Starfinder. They did a lot of stuff right and there is a lot to steal from there. I constantly found myself impressed with their rules till I realised that they were 'solving problems that I did not have' (i.e. DnD problems). But they were solving them in clever ways.

I particularly liked (I assume since these are the only points I remember) the way they used high-tech shields and armour as a second layer of HP (addressing the silly binary '1 HP is as effective as 100' aspect of DnD/Pathfinder), and that they handled Initiative correctly --though only in space, in land battles they go back to doing it the wrong way round-- those with higher Initiative act later, so they can react to the choices of those with lower initiative. Outcomes are resolved after everyone has acted.

All this makes for rather fun and detailed battles. Though the rest is still pretty standard DnD, which means 'lacking in most things that are not fighting'. :(
That is one of my criticisms about all their games. People go on and on about how pretty they are, but I don't actually care about artwork --and often think it can be a hindrance since it stifles imagination. I agree their books are pretty, but found the text and mechanics a bit lackluster.

They felt like board games, much like Fantasy Flight's Star Wars games. But that is just me.
Cortex (don't ask me which one) has so much potential, though there a balance issues which make it difficult to play for long. I have only used Leverage, though. I don't often use pre-made settings, so did not play or read their Firefly despite having it there on my shelf.

I don't have time right now for proper answer... But my thought is simple:

So... lets design our own "perfect" sci-fi system together? :)) I'm not kidding. Somehow I have a feeling that we can pull it through and our views are aligned enough. No pressure, no time restrictions... just for fun:) What you say? I have some "game" that can morph into that: "Perfect" sci-fi game
Of course we can use different place for this. I think you maybe experienced enough and I not-experienced enough to have a good points of view on the subject.

Just my thought:)

Ok, never mind that. I think I have figured it out somehow for me. As you can see, I am sometimes overly enthusiastic:) But still I think I will design "my Travaller" based on Year Zero Engine OGL, changing d6s to d6, d8, d10, d12 adding some duel and stealth rules(I have a draft of them) and some interesting variants. Not that I would refuse any help or participation, but I realize that such a quick proposal sounds not very serious :)

I am not currently doing game design work. There are so many systems out there that I still want to try that spending the time on 'making the perfect system' is just not feasible. Good luck with it, though.