Character Creation & OOC

Starting this thread to discuss chargen and for OOC general discussion.

Hey all! As mentioned in recruitment I'm thinking of the tomboy Bone Gnawer Ahroun. The Bone Gnawers have always been my favorite tribe since they live in the cities and easily make for gritty down to earth characters that express the gloom of the World of Darkness. Plus they are practical where it comes to balancing Garou society and traditions versus their basic needs. So far I played a Theurge and Ragabash but neither game lasted longer than 3 months. I thought Ahroun might be fun to try for a change. Never done that before but I like the idea of exploring a high-Rage character. Plus it's funny if the Bone Gnawer kicks back instead of just taking it.

Since we're so new and young I want to stay away from the big knowledges like rituals and occult. I'll probably also be the first Ahroun ever not to prio physical attributes (high strength and constitution on a 15-year old? Yeah, no...). Being so young I also assume things like high brawl, firearms and melee are off the table. We're too young to be pro wrestlers/fencers/soldiers. Instead she'll be a delinquent who can steal a car and bag her groceries without paying. Add in some streetwise and such and I think I'll have a blast of a character.

I dunno... I guess it depends what you consider high? Because even as teens, I think we can easily justify three dots in just about anything. Two dots is still considered average, right?

However you feel like making your characters within the rules is fine. That's 3 dots before freebie points.

Yes- it's possible that a teen could be very skilled at something they started at an early age, and since this game is set in Kentucky that does include firearms. Brawl could be martial arts classes, melee fencing.

If we limited every skill to less than 3 it would be very difficult to spend all those points after all.

That said, I absolutely get the desire to build a kid with no combat skills and then learn them with experience in the game- it can certainly provide a rewarding experience.

Hello,

I'm happy to be here. Werewolf has been on my shortlist of games to play for a long time. However, this is my first time out so I'll probably need a fair amount of hand (or paw) holding as the game progresses.

I'm looking to play a Stargazer Galliard, probably 17 years old. Is there anything in particular I should know before I start my PC, or should I just work my way through the book rules as written?

The only question I can think of is if we're using Kailindo.

updated character sheet where I had missed three skills that are different in Werewolf from Vampire; thanks for pointing it out Khulod.

Checking how everyone is doing on character creation; anyone need help or have questions?

I think I am going to leave Kalibdo out for now-- it's one I never quite figured out anyways and we can leave it to the side and potentially work it in later since your characters shouldn't be starting out knowing it regardless.

Just gotta type everything out, and I should be ready to go.

Coming along Currently working out whether to go wide with the skills having her been trained in a little bit of everything, or tall on certain things.

Was going to pick up some leadership and charisma things given Silver fang, unless anyone else was leaning that way

I was leaning towards some manipulation/charisma, but mostly "charming rogue" social skills and not "leader of shifters" social skills.

I have the kids this weekend so if we can aim for a Sunday night start I can review characters as you submit them between now and then that would be great.

Sounds good!

Ok. Officially submitted. I need to find a character picture and type in the backstory, but the meat and taters is done.

Submitted my sheet!

Okay, approving all characters here.

We have one more potentially joining us, but he hasn't said anything so we may end up working him in after the beginning.

@LightofMidnight-- I think you're short one knowledge, I only count 8 dots?

Also-- one more general thing-- only one person has any totem currently; to get access to a pack totem everyone needs 1 dot in totem at least to receive the benefits-- this can be purchased for 2 EXP after game start, but didn't know where people were at on wanting a pack totem/which totem-- usually the group decides what they are looking for together, but I know we have a lot of new to werwolf here so it may not have been something you were thinking about.

@Duke_of_Nothingburg-- have you looked at the linked document and gotten an idea of what character type you want to play?

Just speaking personally, but I hate going into games with any preconceived plans for totems.

Still would be nice to get one as soon as we're eligible. And the more dots in that background, the bigger the totem. That's why I put 3 points in it already. (Yes, it was I!)

But if no one else wants to invest that's fine too, I can solo adopt Rat and the rest can go totemless. No pack tactics, but hey. Would fit my character's theme of making her own way.

Whoops, that was from me umming and erring about rites and rituals. Ended up going no rites from start as given her the background of not being around other Theurge, but put the dot back in rituals for when she picks some up. If people thinks it better we get some rites I can swap bits around. Just wasn't sure what was good as new to system.

I'm happy to swap a point from resources to Totem, ready for when we do decide one.

I've gone for a lot of backgrounds/gnosis/will power and an extra gift this time as opposed to merits. No idea if this was correct choice but we shall see.

We don't have the rite of talisman dedication? That will be fun for a change.

We can get a pack totem, but IMO we need to come together as a pack, learn each other, and then figure out what spirit we want to go after. It takes time, and that gives us plenty of time to build up some XP.

What I meant by preconceived plans was, I've played with people who will build a character and decide they need this one particular totem for their character to really be dialed in, and if the party wants any other spirit it ruins their day. I hate that. I'd rather figure it all out in game.

Oh the whole roleplay aspect I can agree on, and I don't optimize characters so I do none of that totem-fitting stuff. (In fact my character may be the least-optimal Ahroun I've ever seen). Rat probably isn't optimal either, it's just my character's tribal totem spirit.

But I do think it's smart to reserve the background points for when the moment is there. A totem spirit may present itself at some point in the story and we'd have to commit at that moment by making our offering. Else you may have the situation some characters cannot join the pack until they've accrued xp to buy the background or worse, we cannot afford to appease the totem as a group and it wanders off to find someone more worthy. Once rebuffed, it may not be open to the idea later.

Again, it's fine if you decide you don't want to invest in a totem. Just say so. I'll make some modifications so I can afford a personal totem and be fine.

If you think it's important, or any you think I should take I can absolutely swap it up. Just being new to the system I was clueless in what was good, so thought I'd make her also out of her element - Knowing her auspices but raised by Kinsfolk used to Ahroun Garou so no one to teach rites or rituals so she only just been able to start moving in with the pack.

I will absolutely also say no idea how we'll built she is, or how well Silver Fang and Theurge gel but we'll see how it goes.

Edit: I'll swap around to get a totem point. Ive written her family being in a worse financial situation than it was in original mind so can take away resources.

May have more spare as well if I trade in the extra gift (Spirit Speech as both it and Mother's touch seemed useful) for some rites points)

Rite of Talisman dedication isn't THAT important-- it's what lets you shift with your clothes, etc, but Rites can be picked up in game later on-- and it could be fun for a game where the easy button on gear isn't always pushed right from the start.

Nope, I'm all for it.
I just don't see a point in putting points in at chargen, unless you're starting as an established pack with a totem. Maybe it's me, but I've never played a game where a totem spirit shows up first session. Those events take time, because your pack needs to accomplish something before any spirit worth the investment will give your pack the time of day. Spirits don't generally come looking for Weres anyway, it's usually up to a pack to track down a spirit and convince it to be their patron. It all takes time.

And time spent means XP gained.

Well I've played a Theurge and for that auspice Spirit Speech is practically mandatory. I won't say Mother's Touch isn't a blessing to have around, but I wouldn't take it over you know, the key component to playing a Theurge.
Exactly! It's the first time where I'd have to consider my warderobe. :)

Also, since we're squicky new garou, it makes sense we haven't had time to learn how to perform rituals, let alone learn specific ones.

I'm reading through this conversation, but being new to the game I'll have to defer a vote to the more experienced players. That being said, I'd be fine with delaying things that don't need to be resolved at character creation, and then working their completion into the game itself.

Oh yeah I'm calling it the extra one as its the second on sheet, but well aware its likely mother's touch that needs to go if I do want more points. ( I can likely get rid of some ancestors points but it seemed thematic)

Edit: Oh @Alordis in case you missed it Matt Parody also commented on recruitment.

Okay- sorry the start here keeps slipping.

Going to post the intro and start into it; will still work in @MattParody and @Duke_of_Nothingburg when they get here

We're all adults as far as I know, and this is a World of Darkness game, but I'll go ahead and put this out there...

Patrick is an ass, and is absolutely going to antagonize people from time to time. If your character ends up upset over it... good. If you as a player get upset over it... feel free to talk to me. In this here OOC thread or via DM are both fine, whatever you're comfortable with.

We're playing teachers, there's going to be clashing. I think as long as in the long run our characters manage to work together nad don't screw over anyone else (At least not majorly) I'm alight with that.

Similarly if anyone else wants to contest Diana attempting to take pack leader as she is naturally going to try and do absolutely go for it.

Hey.

Trying to put ideas to paper now.

Question:
What kind of apocalypse happened?
Are we talking Mad Max, The Last of Us, current arc BPRD comic style, Alas Babylon , or something that only really effected the Garou and the rest of world look exactly the same?

With that question being asked, I'm thinking of a Glass Walker or Stargazer...
Probably Gilliard auspice...
White Howlers aren't on the table, right?

White Howlers are not on the table.

And it's the kind which only Garou really noticed.

The important thing is they made their heroic stand, the Three aspects of Gaia were out back into balance, but then for 20 years there were no new werewolves, and since new wolves started changing lupus have only been Ragabash.

We have a Silver Fang Theurge, a Bone Gnawer Ahroun, a Fianna Ragabash, and a Stargazer Galliard so far.

(No love for the Philodox I guess)

BTW, can I just go on record as saying I'm honestly bummed they did away with Cunning as a reknown?? Lol

Cunning is a Baster renown isn't it?

Garou have always been Glory Honor Wisdom

Werewolf the Foresaken, actually. (Probably also Bastet though.) But I liked the five renowns. It was actually one thing about the NWoD Werewolf game I thought they got right.

Ah, yeah I never really read forsaken werewolf, what was the fifth?

Purity, Glory, Honor, Wisdom, and Cunning were the five.

Most NWoD lines worked on a five by five axis.

Vampires had five Clans (with numerous bloodlines), and five "organizations."

Werewolves had five Tribes, five Auspices, and five renowns (one tied to each auspice).

And so on.

Glass Walker Philodox.

Anyone else having issues with that Google Doc link?

I'm thinking I'm going to play this as a Streamer/YouTuber turned Garou.

Is the link not working? I will try to repost a fixed one tonight

Should be set to anyone with link to view the doc, so I'm not sure if you're having problems with it- let me know if you still can't open it you can PM me an email and I can send it that way.

Link works fine for me. Maybe a different browser will help?

Patrick will be the 'butt' of quite some jokes. He did this to himself.

That was far less impressive than I was hoping.

The dice giveth and the dice taketh away, hah.

I get like a week of just garbage rolls. Then I'll get like... two rolls that aren't complete ass. Then we're right back to a week of garbage.

Are we sure that statistically this averages out? Lol

Wait... spirits are immune to anything but agg?

Huh. I could have sworn they were. I must be crossing something up or misremembering, so disregard that statement.

No no, you're good. I thought maybe I was.

This is, IMO, the biggest problem with game lines that have multiple editions where each edition is very similar to previous editions. It's so easy to misremember something that changed. Add in some house rules that your group used for so long you start to forget what's a house rule and what's just a book rule (or a previous edition rule)?

Good times. Nothing like feeling senile early in life. Lol

I might be confusing it with spirits in Shadowrun as well who do have resistance to non-magic attacks.

Oof, yeah good point.

So I start my new job on Monday and it's twelve hour shifts.

So that said, I will still be on top of games here but instead of a "respond whenever" throughout the day I've been able to do I will be batching my responses-- quick hits in the morning before work, but the majority when I get home (about 7 PM CDT) and just before bed (probably not much later than that since the starting work at 6 AM thing).

Will see how this goes, but I am confident I will still be able to keep games moving forward.

Congrats on the job! No worries about the game, and hopefully everything goes well.

To answer the question about 10s counting as 2 successes-- yes on Damage (or soak) this can still count as two successes if your specialty applies.

So I removed the two player's who had expressed interest but not ever went forward with character creation-- if they show back up I will still add them back but they both went radio silent/inactive so I assume they are not joining us at this point.

We do have one more joining us-- so welcome @Dragonsmight; worked with him on his character today- he will be playing a Lupus Get of Fenris Ragabash, and I will work him into the scenario pretty easily here in the next few posts.

Well that got awkward quick. 🤣🤣🤣

Just a quick mention here Alexander has 5 points in totem he puts great importance on his pack and kin he was raised by his father and brothers and general will be as helpful as possible that being said he knows almost nothing of the human world will problay be confused by most modern tech.

Hey guys. I'm sick at the moment and unable to post. Hopefully I'm back in a few days.

Hope you get better soon

Get better!

Feel better soon... Misha may or may not become pack leader while you're gone. :p

Ooc On the one hand Diana is built with leadership etc stuff in mind... On the other hand it will be hilarious if Misha gets it, and she may be humbled... Eventually, when/if she stops sulking.

We had a bad ice storm here, and even though the electricity is back on, it's Easter weekend. I doubt we'll be back online quickly.

Have a happy easter everyone

BTW, are we generally glossing over or ignoring Werewolf genetics? Or is that in play?

Asking, because I need an idea of how my character would respond to... well, something.

I think we’re kinda ignoring it as most of are characters have shown attraction to other werewolf’s

Hell in Alexander’s background his family is completely fine with werewolf on werewolf relationships I mean that’s while most noble family’s dislike the moonshine family for the past couple generations because the moonshine family aren’t assholes to those that want to have a relationship with other werewolf it’s even rumored were offspring of two werewolves.

I think you don't grasp my real question...

For reference, like twenty years ago, I remember boards where one of the writers spelled it all out.

---

Werewolf + werewolf is forbidden, as it breeds Metis and only metis. (Werewolf version of inbreeding.)

A newborn's form (Homid or Lupus) is dictated by the mother. A wolf mother breeds lupus, a human mother breeds homids. They are not interchangeable. (That is, a wolf cannot give birth to a human baby or vice versa.)

The two mates also have to be in the same form at time of conception. (If they are different forms, they can't breed. Also, gross.)

---

This would mean... your dad is the werewolf, and he shifted to breed with a wolf kinfolk.

If your siblings are homid, that would mean he sorta cheated on his human partner.

It's also borderline beastiality to have a homid choose to breed a wolf. 😂🤣

So yeah, I need to know from the ST specifically how we're approaching the whole werewolf genetics thing. It'll have an impact.

---

Edit: And now I need to know if we're allowing PvP. Which I'm fine with, just remember we're setting a precedent. 😈

I have to admit I too was confused at hpmod having a Lupus thing as I thought the above was the case, but I just assumed I was a lore newbie (Which is great when I'm playing a character who is meant to know about it, I've been catching up on it)

I'm alright with minor pbp, (we're teenagers, or the wolf equivalent for Alex, we're going to disagree.) but not to be the point we are backstabbing each other! on opposite sides. I have to admit coming from a dnd/pf background I have a dislike against social skills working on other players but if its the rules will accept that.

Such as if Misha (or someone else) does win the vote, Diana is not going to pick a fight and begrudgingly accept it. (Also she's sensible enough to know she's not beating an Ahroun 1v1)

Edit: Also while waiting for Khulod to get better/ Phil to get power do we want to start tossing around names/totems, obviously subject to change when they are able to post and add suggestions/opinions.

It's more about rolling dice against other PCs. It's often frowned upon, as it can be seen as taking player agency away from said players. (It gets worse when you get into certain gifts, or even Disciplines like Presence or Dominate.)

I don't mind either way, but I do want to know what our game parameters are. Because I have a somewhat socially built punk kid with a big chip on his shoulder and a bigger pistol -- who knows Werewolves regenerate, and there are gifts that heal. 😂

Oh absolutely. I do tend to dislike that as I come from dnd and pathfinder where its not allowed for the reasons you state. (It's why Diana hasn't been rolling at you guys delspite also being socially built as well) as I do like player agency.

But I realise some games (like Pbta comes to mind) it is very much a thing.

Don't think Patrick is going to get his point across if he starts shooting though :p

Can see an alternative on Patrick and Diana rolling against the NPCs to sway their votes to their side.

Alexander just want a cookie that’s what the roll was for not to convince you to vote for his candidate also his mom was a regular wolf and his fathers original mate died long ago his brothers are all like 80 or older with his father being like 130 Alexander doesn’t want to change Patrick’s mind about the alpha he just genuinely want to know what a cookie is and to have one be cause he heard his brother talk about it

Alexander father is a crazy old man that fell in love with a wolf little more than 2 year ago he is the youngest and has no full siblings,his brothers mother was a full blooded human not even a kinfolk so she died of old age long ago

Also we probably shouldn’t be able to fight each other for many reasons

And in general I will never roll to force you to change your vote or anything I mostly wanted to play the character who doesn’t know what a cookie is and wants one he is trying to charm you for a cookie unknowingly cute puppy face when they want something he will never try to change manipulate or force anyone except enemies and in general he is shit at social he has 4 points in appearance 1 in per and 1 in manipulation he is very good looking but completely shit in all other aspects of social and he’s completely loyal to the pack he would die for all of you he doesn’t even know how to backstab all his life he’s been taught to be honorable straightforward and fight

Oh and I have no idea about totems except no spiders Alexander has a phobia. Sorry about rolling against you

For "pvp" rolls- I think especially for social rolls that it's okay to roll the dice to show how "effective" your arguments are or whatever to give the other player an idea of how they might react, but it definitely doesn't just "work" the way it sometimes does with NPCs- to that is to say even with all 10s on your roll to convince another PC they are going react how they want their character to react.

As for a formal challenge - that's definitely a thing that could happen if it goes there.

For the lupus vs homid thing- I think that it's probably acceptable for a homid werewolf who spends enough time in lupus form to honorably mate with a lupus kinfolk or vice versa- I know this speaks of bestiality for us, but to Garou you ARE both human and wolf so it's natural, if uncommon.

And yes- probably should start throwing out totem ideas while we wait for Misha to return to close up the Alpha discussion. (Paul has also not commented his opinion on that.)

I'll list a range of possible totems later this morning to get your thoughts running.

Oh no, well... ok probably not. I was thinking intimidation. The fetish weapon could count as a situational bonus to the dice pool, or make the target number a little easier. Having a DE in your gut gives most people pause. Lol

The obvious pick for Patrick would be Coyote. Fox would be a solid second.

That said, when you look at bans Griffin simply won't work and... Falcon is a hard no for Patrick. Lol

Well Diana would go for Falcon, so thats that out :P

Diana wouldn't be too keen on Coyote or Fox - Definitely not fox as it effects honour, Coyote, or tricksters in general just doesn't really aid her, and she would diagree with tricks.

Definite no to bear for her.

Rat could be decent, but Diana will need to be outvoted.

Unicorn could be of use in the Umbra, and aid with healing, and other gifts and I don't think hard counters any of the packs beliefs?

Owl similar useful in Umbra, not sure Misha or Rat food would approve.

I'm working on typing a bunch into the thread there including ones from non-main book sources for reference.

Okay Mammoth looks interesting - Diana may be at odds with its ban at times (though her current arguments are she's doing everything for her family, not herself. Whether or not it would agree is different.)

Main reason Patrick can't do Falcon is Honor is the renown he is dumping. He's dirty, underhanded, cheating to win, ends over means given form. Lol

Edit: That would also include Unicorn being a no. Werewolves end up fighting werewolves, not a big fan of having that made more difficult.

I think either mammoth or Owl

GraniteFair on the Unicorn (Though note it does allow vs Bloack spiral dances, and is only a difficulty boost, not ofrbiddance). And yeah unfortunately Diana and Patrick are very much opposites. She believes in honour, tradition and following the rules, so wouldn't want to be associated with a trickster spirit. She also would be grumpy at the rat Totem but I can actually see that one benefitting everyone hence the 'she may get outvoted'.

Granite and Nerigal are also interesting.

As said if other want to go for Mammoth could be interesting. She may end up losing favour with it at some point but can see that being drama/character advancement rather than just her forever being locked out. She might even suggest mammoth herself in an attempt to prove that contrary to what Patrick says being leader is not for her personal gain .

I played a lot of NWoD where the standard target number for a success was 8 (which is what our standard difficulty of 6, then +2 penalty from the totem would be). It was a chore to get successes as it was in our IRL game, and GP's dice roller has it out for me. Lol

Owl wouldn't be terrible.

Hey all. Still alive. Turns out I am having my first round of Covid. My last vaccination was 15 months ago so it hit me like a bad flu. On the upnote I have most of my faculties back by now so I'll try to catch up this game at least since it seems everything is hinging on Misha. Just... give me some time.

I am glad your getting better

This is a newbie question, but is it possible for the pack politics to turn into a situation where Alpha has a sort of "minority" rule?

Yes- absolutely it is.

Also- there can just be challenges. The Litany (Werewolf law) says that the Leader can be challenged any time outside of war-- so yes, theoretically any member of the pack could demand combat trial anytime basically.

And you will never need a story, because challenging for leadership will consume us. 🤣🤣

Unexpected, but it will be interesting to see where it goes.

There absolutely is story planned.

Nah, I meant if we could truly challenge for leadership at any time outside of war (which ended)... may as well scrap your story. The fight would never end. There wouldn't be time for anything else. 😂

"This is your 137th rematch. Is this really how we're spending Thursday? Again?" Someone in charge, probably.

Just to be clear, in-game, there are a variety of things happening concordantly. We aren't all in the room while Misha is being offered work for us, right?

Correct. It was stated she was summoned to the caern, and made pretty obvious she went alone.

I assumed that Paul wasn't on site, but it wasn't necessarily as obvious that Diana and Patrick weren't arguing in the background while Misha was having this talk. Sort of like when the kids are swept aside so the grown-ups can talk.

Others may have been in the room when Misha announce where she was going and saw the little altercation between her Diana, then she left to meet the sept.

That was all covered in narration though.

Can people still smoke indoors in the World of Darkness? Misha needs her cig. :D

I mean- you CAN, but my world of darkbess assumes that other than supernatural stuff we are in a clone of the current world (well 3 years ago), so it is illegal to do so-- but whose stopping you? The police?

And by "crack" I mean "vitae." 🤣

I'm going to be away this weekend. I'll probably be able to post, but no guarantees.

OK, it's been a while since I played WtA, but wasn't there a way to peek through the umbra?

Dammit, now I'm going to have to try and look it up or it'll nag me all day.

Yes I believe that there is, but I'll have to check the book later when I'm home.

The jobsite I'm at has shit reception, but I'm trying to look it up as well.

From a character perspective, I feel Diana would likely know it's at least possible. She had a certain level of formal education... Werewolf 101 if you will.

Just got home from work and was able to look up my copy:

'A Garou in the Penumbra can peer back into the physical world, but it’s not easy, and it’s not without risk. (This requires a Gnosis roll against a difficulty equal tothe local Gauntlet.) If the attempt succeeds, the werewolf sees a shadowy, monochromatic version of the physical world. Seeing fine details is difficult (although it’s possible to read newsprint, a computer monitor, or facial expressions with five successes). Noises from the other side have distortion or echoes. Scent, however is unaffected; in fact, some Garou claim their sense of smell is heightened enough that they can even track prey. While a Garou in the Penumbra is peeking into the physical world, however, she is oblivious to her surroundings in the spirit world, unless she starts taking damage (and losing Health Levels). Her pack can’t communicate with her, and her enemies can act unopposed. Her intense concentration is obvious, especially since her eyes will be glowing. Werewolves can also peek from the Earth to the Penumbra, though it’s even more difficult. The Gnosis roll is against a difficulty of the local Gauntlet plus three, up to a difficulty of 9. However, the same dangerous distraction is evident.

So the gauntlet was already 10 so it can be done but is difficult.

You guys obviate the communication issue due to the totem power.

So the gauntlet was already 10 so it can be done but is difficult.

You guys obviate the communication issue due to the totem power.

Awesome.

And she isn't there alone, Alex and Rat Food can watch over her. Seems like it's at least worth an attempt.

If you can potentially read newsprint or a screen, I feel identifying if there are people, noting where cameras, doors, and windows are, and seeing furniture/layout should be doable on a regular success. None of that is particularly detail oriented.

Don't mind me, just looking up how to recover Willpower for absolutely no reason :P

🤣🤣

Emphasis mine.

It certainly sounds like clothes don't cross into the Umbra if not dedicated. 🤷 Ultimately your call though.

There next activity that will be storyteller directed will be at the following monthly moot which is in about two weeks time after you return to Cumberland Falls so posts detailing what you do in those two weeks would be appropriate or if you had any missions you wanted to instigate.

It's a difficulty 5 Gnosis roll to attune to the Sword since it's a rank 5 Fetish.

Ah Diana was still hoping to stick around and looking into that ve ding machine which she had stated....if the other wnt to leave she my stick around in the two weeks and try and find out more.

Yeah- if anyone wants to stay in Michigan longer you can, just wanted to hit the segue on the scenario. You just know you have two weeks to be back at the Cairn.

I think 5 is a record! 🤣
I'm planning to keep Allies and Military Force as seperate Backgrounds, even though there is overlap in-game. Allies being the couple of people Patrick founded this with... military force being the numbers.

As for Military Force...

o 15-person mob, generally unorganized and untrained: student rebels, street gang

oo 25-person team, generally with some combat training: police, crime family

I don't know that we'll ever go above two dots. It's not what I envision for Patrick.

At some point in the next few months my internet provider will be switching and hopefully it will then be consistent enough to not do this duplicate posting lol

At some point in the next few months my internet provider will be switching and hopefully it will then be consistent enough to not do this duplicate posting lol

Do we earn any Renown for retrieving the fetish, or do we have to wait for the next moot?

Also, question about the sword; since it's a fetish, can I merge with it once I am attuned? And do I need to make a Gnosis roll before I am allowed to spend Gnosis for additional actions?

Lastly, is the ASOTMK a Sword or a Great Sword as defined on page 302?

Fetishes once attuned are automatically bonded and don't count against your limit.

If it wasn't clear the sword lets you- attempt a gnosis roll for an extra action and also lets you spend gnosis for extra actions, so you can do either or both in the round.

It's the size of a Grand Klaive so use those stats for damage (though you don't get the prestige benefits since its not a traditional Grand Klaive).

As far as renown- I could have sworn there was renown for recovering fetishes but I could not find it on the chart anywhere- if someone sees it let me know which category its under because it's not under the section for fetishes.

Also- yes when the original news story I pulled the image from went around it is a replica version of that sword.

If everything goes as planned, I'll be unavailable for a couple of weeks from the 23rd of July. I'm going on a family trip to a place that has electricity, but no internet. (Such a place exists!) I'll be back on and posting as soon as I have an internet connection.

Thanks for letting me know, will see you when you grt back.

Hello.

I'm still away from home for a week, but I have an internet connection again. Do you want me to jump in back now?

Oh feel free to if you can but if your vacation still has you too busy don't worry

Oh feel free to if you can but if your vacation still has you too busy don't worry

Kind of an odd question, but here goes...

Can you alter a fetish without "breaking" the fetish?

Like, can you change pieces to it... rewrap a sword grip, change out sights or trigger assembly on a firearm, and so on?

Patrick has been meditating with his pistol at the caern (to increase his gnosis), so if anything he can ask around... but the idea is to change out the barrel. That said, he will only consider it if the fetish won't be broken.

I. . . do not have the answer to this.

Obviously you have to be able to assemble/disassemble the pistol for it to function, but how much of it changing makes it a "different" gun?

I'll have to dig in on the question this weekend and get back to you.

No real rush, I'm just trying to make sure one bad run in with human law enforcement doesn't suddenly link us to 17 unsolved crimes or anything.

That said, I'm also not trying to have a "Ship of Theseus" debate. Lol

So, skipping the Going Nukular adventure it will be another month (at least) in game time until another active story happens-- unless your characters have more active routes they are going to push on their own?

Paul is probably ready to carry on with the group.

Sorry guys I'm feeling a bit drained at the moment.

Think I made a character for a different campaign than the rest of you all, especially when when one player gets to control whether we just ignore what the DM has bothered to prep for us.

Been debating for a while to drop or swap character, on holiday at the moment.

I get someone tension between characters and NPCs but ngl the amount of antagonism has been exhausting at times, even though I have enjoyed some bits of rp as well.

On holiday atm and will try nd decide after, just felt like I needed to get thoughts out as been sitting on it for a while.

Ah, if we're at the point where we table some concerns, mine is that I feel I'm shouldering the game together with the ST, which in a way mirrors LoM's concern that I 'control everything'. Which I do because no one else is stepping up so I'm the only one left making the calls. I understand some of you guys are way more comfortable in the role of just tagging along. That's fine. But if you're quiet, I got nothing to act on. And you guys are very, very quiet. The more you showcase your character, what they stand for, what they want, and the more vocal they get about it, the more it will get woven into the story.

So if your character thinks Misha is an arse for tossing aside Garou society's concerns, bitch about it. You may not convince her, but if enough members of the pack say they want to go to the nuclear power plant, I (being a responsible player), will have Misha begrudgingly go along with the 'stupid idea'. I'm not going to pull the Alpha card on something like that. And if you actually happen to agree with Misha I'd love to hear it too, because then your character is involving itself in the decision rather than admiring the scenery in the background and it creates pack dynamics.

I mean I did try and come to one of the meetings to be able to give input and got told no so *shrug*.

I'm not always in a mood to get into in character arguments so I can play tbh.

When I am worried every time Diana says somethings she's going to get snapped at and I've got to plan a witty retort or just put up with it it's tiring so yes thats why I haven't been posting much recently.

I'm sorry if she's not a character that fits in with a the group. She was meant as a character who had a lit of expectations on her shoulders and is struggling under pressure to meet them, with the idea she would realise that maybe not all of that is necessary. So yeah was expecting sone conflict but also wanted to be able to resolve that conflict - hence the offer to teach Misha to try and maybe open up some RP like with Patrick.

Sorry if that's not come across properly it seems, hence why might be retiring her.

This sort of sums up the issue, as I see it.

The phrasing implies that Misha telling the pack about the issue at the nuke plant is a possibility. Not that Misha will tell the pack, or did tell the pack. It's an important distinction.

It's important because characters can't act on information they don't have. More to that point though, @LightOfMidnight did try to come to a meeting and was shut down. I can understand as a player we understand the game is the game, but as a character why would someone keep trying?

Patrick has plenty of stuff to do in the downtime to keep him busy, so he's good either way. It's why I as a player don't worry too much about the pack opting out.

That said, players can only work with what their characters know. You can't really complain that you're the only one doing anything, when thus far you have chosen to more or less exclude others.

I'm not gonna lie, this has been a pretty a typical Werewolf game.

Yes, in Werewolf usually the Alpha gets the missions and brings them back to the pack, which does put Misha in the spot to tell the Sept leadership to eff off, which has definitely changed the direction I expected this game to go and is making me struggle to bring the action out.

I've got a new plan to get things rolling so I'll kick that off shortly.

@LoM: Well I did try to initialize some 'bonding' when Misha wanted to learn how to use the Sword of the Meth King and drove Diana to vampire town but that didn't take off.

@MJ: Misha isn't out of the meeting yet. Also, it's a very small effort to make a 'So, what did he want to talk about?' post once she steps out of it. Clearly it's important what's talked about with the Sept elders.

Heck, anyone of you can make a post RIGHT NOW to showcase what your character's thoughts are about what's possibly happening in that meeting, the character's feelings about being excluded, how they feel about Misha calling the shots so far, or just some introspection about how they feel about being a Garou. Brood a little World of Darkness style. Or start an activity for themselves, however trivial. There are plenty of times in multiple games where I have nothing to do, really no input to bring to aid in the situation, but I make a post anyhow to show that I'm involved and offer up my character's perspective on what's unfolding in the scene or the grander scheme of things. You don't have to wait until you're explicitly called out to act. Just post! *Shia LaBeouf intensifies*

In character we don't know the meetings happening. She got caked out while in an alley and didn't mention it to the rest.

Addmittedly on the investigation I was entering the start of the rl fun I'm currently happening, but was waiting to see if anyone else was going to aid in the investigation before it petered as didn't want to lead a one man show when others weren't there tbh.

And yeah Diana basically attempts to help out with meetings/give input have been met with backlash and insults, so as noted in posted she's got quite low morale on the situation right now in regards to sticking her neck out/trying to force Misha's hand.

I have to second that no one even knows you're at the meeting. 🤣

Then at least you know she's gone half a day and took her car. Come on!

Ok, so Misha was gone for half a day with her car.

Nothing about that screams "I had a meeting at the Caern." Even if you rule out people coming and going as they please (not everyone lives at the warehouse, after all), being gone for a while is pretty unremarkable. Hell... Patrick is still in school, trying to actually graduate. Depending on the "when," Misha could have left and come back all while he was in class. He'd never know.

Patrick is in school? Sounds like you can make a Teenage Werewolf post!

Oh, and what does he do with his significant other (his gun) when he's in class? Asking for a friend.

We're trying to point out you can't just blame everyone else for things. Yeah as a group we can all change things, but as it is we have no info about the meeting, and it's not necessarily odd for Misha to leave. Diana has been stated to often be with the sept or training elsewhere.

Putting the onus in us to ask get the info out of your character rather than mentioning it or aiding in getting the information out isn't helping.

Rather than. 'Oh Misha went with Diana for maybe binding but nothing happened.. Start the conversation off maybe? I admit I could have two, but that's on both of us not just me. I did actively in character offer the sword lessons and didn't get a icresponse which did make me wonder if I should bother trying again,

Yes some people are quieter rpers. Instead of blaming them give out opportunities for them to latch onto and build up practice and confidence. It can be quiet intimidatibg for some especially when someone has a forceful character.

I'll try and do the same aswell.

I'm not one to post just for the sake of posting. Especially in PbP where things can grind down even if we just focus on the plot at hand... distracting from that is counterintuitive, IMO.

So... highschool is relegated to character fluff, not anything plot related. It's the realm of offhand comments and serves as an answer for "Nothing happens for a month, what do you do during that time?"

I just like to give chances for people to do things like approach elders to learn rites a d a chance to be a bit sand boxey and seek out adventures if there are things characters want to accomplish before I drive things forward with assigned missions or things happening to you.

I hate railroading characters if I can avoid it, so rhats why I put the months segues in.

No no, I absolutely understand Alordis, and I truly appreciate that you offer those chances.

The way I see it, even if Patrick doesn't somehow turn his math test into a quest for the pack... that downtime is spent accomplishing certain things. It's the justification when it's time to spend XP. And I'm all for that.

I'm just trying to make sure I don't co-opt the game itself. (That, and highschool life isn't entertaining. I hated it when I was there, I have no aspirations to recreate it. Lol)

This is my first time playing Werewolf and this dispute is itself instructive. I didn't really know what to expect when I asked to join up, but if this is how a normal game feels then this has been worthwhile.
For me, I've been under the impression that there's a very clearly defined hierarchy. Only the alpha really has any sway over things because they can unilaterally make (or veto) decisions for the entire group. The rest of us feel more like side characters. Maybe I've been misunderstanding how things are supposed to work? Probably. Since no one except the alpha can really influence what happens in the story, at least as far as I can tell it's hard to see how the rest of the characters besides Misha fit into the larger story beyond being her underlings.

The suggestions to role-play make the characters more present in the game, but they don't really impact the way decisions get made. Then again, this is my first time so I might not have a properly informed perspective.

It is unfortunately an issue with games where there is a caotain/Alpah/commanding officer etc. Anything that places one players above others.

Imo the DM and that player need to be careful to make sure the others aren't feeling left out/ still have an opportunity to be involved in the decisions, even if just out of character. Blaming the other players when you hold the cards isn't really appropriate, especially as pointed out attempts have been made...

Especially here where in game the recourse would be a physical challenge for Alpha which Misha wins.

Pack dynamics go a little further than there being an alpha and 'the rest'. Depending on your Auspice you have a role in the pack.

Ragabash: The Runt. Because they have the least rage, they are the most calm. Can generally never be an alpha and thus he is the individual who is supposed to challenge the alpha and the old ways because they get away with far more before inviting punishment (their yipping is not seen as a challenge to wrest away authority, while it might be when another Auspice does it). Like the jesters of old european courts, he is the trickster who is alternately foolish and wise. He plays the role of the contrary, questioning tradition in order to find the wisest path. His pranks can be nasty, but they always serve to teach something.

Theurge: Expert on the Umbra and Spirits. Whenever something spiritual happens this is the pack member who's expected to step up. Moving the pack through the gauntlet, negotiating with the pack totem and other spirits and being the expert on fetishes and whatnot. Some develop oracular abilities, but this usually comes at the price of losing grip on reality somewhat. Their role is important as Garou are deeply connected to the spirit world. On longer journeys through the Umbra the theurge may assume the role of alpha.

Philodox: The balanced one. Starts with the average Rage of the Auspices. A Philodox is a mediator and has the duty of keeping the pack aligned despite the extremes of its members. This is important! It's generally not the alpha who deals out the punishments or straightens people out, but the Philodox. They are keepers of Garou Law and their duty is to uphold the Litany. They are very apt at discerning the truth and carry some authority with them. They are often alphas in peacetime.

Galliard: Keepers of lore and the party bard. Strong social abilities among Garou, but their high Rage makes it difficult for them to interact with humans. They speak for the pack at Moots and recount the deeds of the pack and Sept, which is very important in the traditions of the Garou.

Ahroun: The war-beasts. They have the most Rage and this makes them the strongest warriors among the Garou, a warrior species in itself. Their role is narrow and clearly defined: to fight and lead in battle from the front lines with their honed instincts. Their duty is to protect the pack from physical threats. But their rage is also their weakness. They have so much of it that it often overwhelms their reason. They are generally picked as the alpha in wartime.

To a lesser degree but still very important to the pack role is the Breed of its pack members. Lupus look at the world in a way free from human worry and concerns. They are often straight-forward, easily adopt to pack mechanics as that's their natural social hierarchy and are deeply in tune with nature and their instincts, which leads to them having the most Gnosis. This of course comes at the cost of understanding humans and human society. Garou Society is much easier to learn and adapt to and that comes first as a Garou cub. Many struggle with learning human languages and its intricacies. Don't forget that they often are very young and never went to school. They are a dying breed, hence they are so valued in Garou society.

On the flip side there are the homids, the most numerous Garou and of course the most adjusted to a human-dominated world. But many have trouble letting go of their human side to fully embrace Garou society, which is brutal, violent and primitive in comparison. Werewolves are monsters, regardless of their noble ideals. Many young homids struggle with this change. In addition, because they are furthest removed from the spiritual world, they have the least Gnosis.

Lastly there are the poor Metis, born of sin and shunned for it. Metis have it tough. They are born in Crinos and cannot change their shape until later in life. They are kept out of sight at distant septs and in the Umbra, living only among Garou. Garou who generally spit on them for existing. They are used as guard dogs and perform the most menial tasks. If they survive to the point where they can change their shape and attain rank, they are lucky. Even then they have to generally work thrice as hard to earn the same recognition their packmates do. They have one advantage however: Their knowledge of Garou society is unsurpassed. They lived and breathed it from the moment they were born. Being in this middle way also makes it far easier for them to understand the human and the wolf.

That is true. Though the Alpha also has such a role. Copy pasting that is not solving the problem presented.

I had hoped to raise the problem so we could all discuss a soloution together - its a group game, everyone should be feeling in cluded, especially in regards to the direction of the game.

You turning it all back on purely everyone else when you could also have Misha mention things to the rest of us or ask us input out of game is also frustrating to be honest. Especially when we have tried in game as you have said and got nowhere.

1: Misha isn't out of the meeting yet. You are complaining about something that hasn't happened yet.
2: You make excuse after excuse why you can't act on something like Misha going to a meeting. In fact, all those excuses boil down to "I decide I don't know that, so I can't do anything, so it's all your fault."
3: You had ample opportunity to do more so far. You did not. Stop projecting on me as I'm to blame for your inaction. Hell, even after I offer up things to do I get a "no but YOU!" thrown at me.

I'm sick of this attitude. I'm going to let Alordis handle this.

1. The current narrative disagrees with this point.

2. For the sake of civility and not turning this into something more antagonistic... let's just say I strongly disagree with your take.

While Alordis is fairly busy and I hate to give him more to work on... I concur with you. I think it best he handles it, as the players are just going round in circles at this point.

I think everyone has said their piece and we should all calm any emotions.

I'll get the game moving, and we can all try to think about other players feelings as we go forward and also remember to separate characters from players.

This game has been a challenge because we do have some clashing character personalities and because it's been so different from every other Werewolf pack I've been storyteller or player with and a lot of my existing plans from before the game started focused on the idea that a pack would be eager to take on missions from the Sept elders- I've adjusted my expectations there and won't make the mistake of bogging the game down on requiring something so out of character for some of the group again.

As for the specific conversation between Misha and Hook Hand- my fault too for not being more clear that it ended. That's another oddity of play by post- at an in person table that exchange would take 5 minutes and then be very clear what the result was and Misha would turn to the rest of the pack and tell them what she was going to, but for something to unfold that organically on play by post might take two weeks while the rest of the characters were effectively sitting sidelined which is obviously not ideal, so I will resolve to do better about buttoning those things up and indicating ooc even when the NPC has effectively spent all their arguments and given all their information so we can keep things moving ahead.

Also, I may institute some kind of 3 day rule for situations like that where if 3 days pass and the conversation can't end it has to be resolved further in spoilered flashbacks while the rest of the game moves forward- not sure.

Either way, I've taken the intent that Misha isn't going to ask the pack to investigate and will share little of that information and pushed us forward. Feel free to resolve anything you needed to do during the month thay I just dast forwarded as flashbacks- talking to available elders to ask for favors, contacts, acquiring equipment, etc- can cover just about whatever we need to that way.

On a final note- we are all passionate players and that's great and I know feathers may have been ruffled over these exchanges but we are all friends here and I don't think anyone on any side of it meant to offend, so please don't take offense and let's continue to make this game and our experience here in general awesome for everyone involved.

Right I'm away from the book atm. Any rites that stand out to people other than Talisman? Aware of questiong stone.

From a character standpoint, Diana should probably learn all (6 I think?) of the Minor Rights.

Talisman Dedication and Questing Stone are givens.

Beyond that... Rite of Cleansing, Rite of Contrition (especially with this pack. Lol), and Rite of Wounding.

These are all level 1 (or below, in the case of minor rights). Once you move on to level 2 rights... there are a lot.

I want to apologize for delays-- we're still in the process of moving, it has taken me a lot more to get feeling "right" after my concussion even as minor as it was, and then piled on by being sick and having the sick kids here.

I said the same thing over in the vampire forum which overlaps for several of you, but I am aware that we are sputtering and need to push ahead to get rolling.

I want to apologize for delays-- we're still in the process of moving, it has taken me a lot more to get feeling "right" after my concussion even as minor as it was, and then piled on by being sick and having the sick kids here.

I said the same thing over in the vampire forum which overlaps for several of you, but I am aware that we are sputtering and need to push ahead to get rolling.

I want to apologize for delays-- we're still in the process of moving, it has taken me a lot more to get feeling "right" after my concussion even as minor as it was, and then piled on by being sick and having the sick kids here.

I said the same thing over in the vampire forum which overlaps for several of you, but I am aware that we are sputtering and need to push ahead to get rolling.

I want to apologize for delays-- we're still in the process of moving, it has taken me a lot more to get feeling "right" after my concussion even as minor as it was, and then piled on by being sick and having the sick kids here.

I said the same thing over in the vampire forum which overlaps for several of you, but I am aware that we are sputtering and need to push ahead to get rolling.

I want to apologize for delays-- we're still in the process of moving, it has taken me a lot more to get feeling "right" after my concussion even as minor as it was, and then piled on by being sick and having the sick kids here.

I said the same thing over in the vampire forum which overlaps for several of you, but I am aware that we are sputtering and need to push ahead to get rolling.

Hey Alordis, I understand pushing ahead but this is too much. We aren't even halfway through planning and now we're suddenly pouring gasoline around, some of us in crinos, some not, no discussion how we went there, no escape plan, nothing.

People wanted me to stop leading so since the big discussion I've taken a step back to give others ample opportunity to step forward. Sadly that clearly hasn't worked and stalled the game completely. So how about we reassess what we're going to do with this game? My idea is to kick the people who ghosted us and regroup. Pull some new people in and start with the mission to take down the factory as their introduction. If people are worn out and rather throw in the towel, that's fine, just say so, it is the way it is. I rather have people say so instead of ghosting the game.

Lets take a quick check on who we still have here--

@Khulod, @Phil_Ozzy_Fer, and @Dragonsmight . . ?

Yes, I'm still lingering. on.

Dragonsmight did post last week...

MaJunior has the dreaded "Zzz"s.

Okay, so three. . . I'm going to post or bump a new recruitment and try to get 2-3 more before we restart here, think some fresh wolves will help refocus things and get them rolling again.

Sorry for the delays.

I haven't gotten any response for additional players. . . I think I'm leaning towards making the hard decision to close this game down. I might try to run a fresh start of Werewolf in a few months, but for now I just don't think we have the forward momentum to be worth continuing.

I haven't gotten any response for additional players. . . I think I'm leaning towards making the hard decision to close this game down. I might try to run a fresh start of Werewolf in a few months, but for now I just don't think we have the forward momentum to be worth continuing.

That's unfortunate, but thank you for letting me join up as a first-time player. It probably didn't like it was drawn up, but I appreciate that I could finally play the game.

Yeah, this is unfortunate. I hope the next time around things go better!