Character Creation rules

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Aug 30, 2016 6:29 pm
Currently, as far as you guys know, the cult is silent. Nobody lets it be known they worship Asmodeus, for fear of the witch-hunts and purges. For that matter, officially, it no longer exists in Talingarde. The nobility and Church of Mitra fully believe that they have burned each and every one of the heretical priests and high priests of Asmodeus.

A few people might...MIGHT...worship him in silence, but it's impossible for you to know.
Aug 30, 2016 6:38 pm
It's underground for sure. So I don't know a single person who shares my faith then? I must have been "ordained" at some point.
Aug 30, 2016 6:51 pm
It is possible that you know of one or two people...but again, it's just as likely that they were killed when you were captured.
Aug 30, 2016 6:51 pm
Maybe everyone hides their identity with a mask?
Aug 30, 2016 6:53 pm
One thing is for certain: There are no "high priests" or anyone capable of truly "ordaining" members of the priesthood alive, as far as the Mitrans are concerned. They were all burned at the stake for their heresy.

OR WERE THEY?!
Aug 30, 2016 8:00 pm
So, I have a question for you:
Quote:
Spellstrike:At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of "touch" from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon’s critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.
This basically gives me a bonus weapon attack on any round that I use a spell with a range of touch. That's fine and obviously the intention of the ability. Now, on to the questionable part (which works by RAW, but you may not allow it): The spell Arcane Mark allows me to, by the Rules-as-Written, get a free attack every single round by using it on my opponent.

What's your ruling on this?

EDIT: Something else to note is that if I WERE to do that every round, all of my attacks would suffer a -2 penalty, so it's not really "free"
Last edited August 30, 2016 8:14 pm
Aug 30, 2016 8:20 pm
Naatkinson says:
So, I have a question for you:
Quote:
Spellstrike:At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of "touch" from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon’s critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.
This basically gives me a bonus weapon attack on any round that I use a spell with a range of touch. That's fine and obviously the intention of the ability. Now, on to the questionable part (which works by RAW, but you may not allow it): The spell Arcane Mark allows me to, by the Rules-as-Written, get a free attack every single round by using it on my opponent.

What's your ruling on this?
The way I've always ruled this: normally, when casting a spell that uses a touch attack (for example, Corrosive Touch) you get a melee touch attack as part of the standard action to cast the spell, which is normally made with your Melee Attack Bonus (STR+BAB). With Spellstrike, that melee touch attack is instead your normal weapon attack, allowing you to strike with your weapon and deal damage at the same time without the penalties incurred from Spell Combat.

You can, of course, combine this with Spell Combat to get your normal attack action as well, but every one of your attacks would incur that -2 penalty (like with two weapon fighting).

Long explanation short: Spellstrike lets you combine a touch spell's damage with your normal weapon damage without the -2 penalty from Spell Combat. You can use Spell Combat and Spellstrike together in the same round to gain your extra melee attack, but at a -2 penalty.

I can see your argument by RAW, and it does make sense in its own way...but this is how I see it, by Rule 0. :)
Aug 30, 2016 8:32 pm
irvanovich says:
Naatkinson says:
So, I have a question for you:
Quote:
Spellstrike:At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of "touch" from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon’s critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.
This basically gives me a bonus weapon attack on any round that I use a spell with a range of touch. That's fine and obviously the intention of the ability. Now, on to the questionable part (which works by RAW, but you may not allow it): The spell Arcane Mark allows me to, by the Rules-as-Written, get a free attack every single round by using it on my opponent.

What's your ruling on this?
The way I've always ruled this: normally, when casting a spell that uses a touch attack (for example, Corrosive Touch) you get a melee touch attack as part of the standard action to cast the spell, which is normally made with your Melee Attack Bonus (STR+BAB). With Spellstrike, that melee touch attack is instead your normal weapon attack, allowing you to strike with your weapon and deal damage at the same time without the penalties incurred from Spell Combat.

You can, of course, combine this with Spell Combat to get your normal attack action as well, but every one of your attacks would incur that -2 penalty (like with two weapon fighting).

Long explanation short: Spellstrike lets you combine a touch spell's damage with your normal weapon damage without the -2 penalty from Spell Combat. You can use Spell Combat and Spellstrike together in the same round to gain your extra melee attack, but at a -2 penalty.

I can see your argument by RAW, and it does make sense in its own way...but this is how I see it, by Rule 0. :)
Like I said, it definitely works by RAW, but I can see why a DM would overrule that. It says the spell has to have a range of touch (not be a touch attack), which Arcane Mark does. Arcane Mark can also be applied to other creatures (which would include enemies). This fits the criteria as written, so I just wanted to be sure.

Just making sure we're on the same page:

You will NOT allow me to use it with Arcane Mark?
Aug 30, 2016 8:37 pm
You can use it with Arcane Mark all you want...just not to get a free melee attack at full bonus at second level :P
Aug 30, 2016 8:40 pm
Sounds good to me. I was hopeful you'd say yes (it's no more powerful than Two-Weapon Fighting, and actually weaker at high levels), but I understand :)
Aug 30, 2016 8:44 pm
What if I use a trait to take Two Worlds Magic trait to take the Touch of Fatigue cantrip? Can I do it then?
Last edited August 30, 2016 8:44 pm
Aug 30, 2016 9:04 pm
Naatkinson says:
Sounds good to me. I was hopeful you'd say yes (it's no more powerful than Two-Weapon Fighting, and actually weaker at high levels), but I understand :)
Eh, I gotta disagree here. The way you've explained it, per RAW, you'd get a bonus attack at your full attack bonus, resolving weapon damage and spell effect at the same time, before your regular attack action. That's effectively a hastened full attack, with a bonus, at level 2. That's slightly more powerful than the Two- Weapon Fighting feat, which reduces the penalty for attacking with a weapon in your off- hand by 4 (- 2/- 6 instead of - 6/- 10).

I will admit, your way would make for an AWESOME serial killer concept, and I'd give it some serious consideration then.
Aug 30, 2016 9:16 pm
Yeah, you get your regular attacks at their regular bonuses, and then have to either succeed on a Defensive Casting check or take an Attack of Opportunity for one additional attack.

Also, TWF reduces penalties by 2 on the main hand and 6 on the off-hand ;)

Example (both with 3/4 BAB classes for comparison)

Level 2 Magus (Spellstrike) vs Level 2 Rogue (TWF). Assuming equivalent stats and gear
Level 2 Magus: +5 to hit, Level 2 Rogue: +5 to hit

Level 2 Magus takes one attack at a +3 (-2 from Spell Combat), then has to Cast Defensively or take an AoO to make another attack at +3

Level 2 Rogue takes two attacks at +3, nothing special required.

Level 10 Magus vs Level 10 Rogue
Level 10 Magus: +12 to hit, Level 10 Rogue: +12 to hit

Magus makes two attacks at +10, +5. Then has to make a Cast Defensively roll or take an Attack of Opportunity to make another attack at +10. Total attacks: +10/+10/+5

Rogue makes four attacks, nothing special required for a total of +10/+10/+5/+5

DISCLAIMER: All of this is assuming no higher level damaging spells used with Spellstrike (which we've already agreed works for the bonus attack)
Aug 30, 2016 9:52 pm
First, now that I have more than a few seconds to read and refresh on Two Weapon Fighting, you're right. It does reduce primary by 2 and off-hand by 6, bringing the total penalty for using a weapon in the off-hand to -4/-4.
Quote:
Two-Weapon Fighting (Combat)
You can fight with a weapon wielded in each of your hands. You can make one extra attack each round with the secondary weapon.

Prerequisite: Dex 15.
Benefit: Your penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons are reduced. The penalty for your primary hand lessens by 2 and the one for your off hand lessens by 6. See Two-Weapon Fighting in Combat.
Normal: If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. When fighting in this way you suffer a –6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a –10 penalty to the attack with your off hand. If your off-hand weapon is light, the penalties are reduced by 2 each. An unarmed strike is always considered light.
(That's what happens when you try to refresh your memory on rules at a stop sign...)

Now, putting aside the fact that I flubbed TWF, check out this guide right here and see what you think. According to it, you can use Spellstrike to cast your touch spell, move, and then use your full-attack to use Spell Combat to get multiple attacks, even delivering multiple touch attacks (such as with Chill Touch) through your weapon. According to that guide (and it appears to be backed up in the Paizo Rules FAQ), all Spellstrike does is move the attack portion of a touch spell from your hands to the steel of your blade.
Aug 30, 2016 10:07 pm
Spellstrike allows you to deliver your spell through your blade and grants a free weapon attack to do so.
Quote:
Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell.
The "free melee attack in place of the free touch attack" mentioned refers to this:
Quote:
Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) as a free action.
So when I use Spell Combat and Spellstrike together I make my weapon attacks and cast a spell. If that spell has a range of touch, I get to make a free attack to deliver the spell (replacing the free touch attack that comes as part of casting the spell with a free action melee attack). And yes, if I use that, I can also apply it to all of my attacks in the round by holding the charge.

Example Shocking Grasp: I use Spell Combat to cast the spell, then use Spellstrike to deliver the attack through my weapon and miss. I can continue holding the charge and channel it through the next attack that hits.

Example Chill Touch: I do the same thing, but hit with the Spellstrike and then three more attacks. I get to channel the spell through all of those attacks.
Aug 30, 2016 10:10 pm
I'm gonna rule it, for now, that you can use Spellstrike for spells that specifically say touch attack (like Chill Touch and Shocking Grasp). We might expand it to using a cantrip like Arcane Mark later on, but for now, it has to specifically say melee touch attack.
Aug 30, 2016 10:13 pm
irvanovich says:
I'm gonna rule it, for now, that you can use Spellstrike for spells that specifically say touch attack (like Chill Touch and Shocking Grasp). We might expand it to using a cantrip like Arcane Mark later on, but for now, it has to specifically say melee touch attack.
So I'll get the bonus attack if I do Shocking Grasp, but not of I do Arcane Mark, correct?
Aug 30, 2016 10:14 pm
Yes. If you use Shocking Grasp, you'll get your "free" attack to deliver the spell, but not if you do it with Arcane Mark. Everything I've read thus far agrees with the "free" attack to deliver the spell.
Aug 30, 2016 10:17 pm
irvanovich says:
I'm gonna rule it, for now, that you can use Spellstrike for spells that specifically say touch attack (like Chill Touch and Shocking Grasp). We might expand it to using a cantrip like Arcane Mark later on, but for now, it has to specifically say melee touch attack.
So, if I do get Touch of Fatigue as a cantrip, which does specify that it's a touch attack, then that would apply?

EDIT: Just need to know for sure so I can decide my last trait
Last edited August 30, 2016 10:19 pm
Aug 30, 2016 10:28 pm
Naatkinson says:
irvanovich says:
I'm gonna rule it, for now, that you can use Spellstrike for spells that specifically say touch attack (like Chill Touch and Shocking Grasp). We might expand it to using a cantrip like Arcane Mark later on, but for now, it has to specifically say melee touch attack.
So, if I do get Touch of Fatigue as a cantrip, which does specify that it's a touch attack, then that would apply?

EDIT: Just need to know for sure so I can decide my last trait
. . . . I'ma have to start drinking again apparently. Handling this sober is for the birds :P

Yes. I'll allow it for that...but with a limit for now.

Add this to Spellstrike: You can use this ability with a cantrip for a number of times equal to your Int modifier + 1/2 your Magus level.
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