[OOC] Character Development and Rules Questions

Howdy!

Thank you for coming for my second attempt on this. I hope you can help me make this ruleset a game folks would love to play. :)

I'm looking for any and all thoughts, comments, suggestions and criticisms. And, I know there are some gaps currently in the Tools Of The Trade chapter especially so I'll use feedback from you all to fill in those gaps as well.

Unlike some, this message won't self-destruct in 5 seconds.... or will it? ;)

NOTE: One thing in particular I would love to get help with are the Pride and Weakness entries for the Archetypes. Currently, no Archetypes have actual entries so I'm hoping to get ideas/actual entries to use from you all. (You would be credited appropriately of course. :) )

I did check your file a bit and you seem to have a lot of Archetypes. You are correct, you need to reduce the number to around 6 Archetypes. There is a RPG game called Spy Game which run with the DnD 5e rules. You can check the classes to give you some ideas. You can also work around with what kind of agents you need in a team, like in Mission Impossible or a military Special Ops teams, like the leader, the medic, the sniper, etc...

Can you explain the Combat section on the provided character sheet? I'm assuming Hit Capacity and Stress Capacity are the same as Health and Resolve defined on page 7, but I'm not clear on how Coolness Under Fire and Unit Moral are derived if they are still used in the current version.

Agreed. I think I had more of an (1E) Shadowrun-type mindset while doing the archetypes in terms of numbers. :) I'm thinking the ones that get cut from this I may make available as their own little supplement. That way for those that want more can still have them. I'll see if I can find that Spy Game you mention, and probably look at Top Secret, Top Secret/SI, James Bond rpg and a couple others as well to get a feel for the necessary ones. That will help my pocketbook too once I am able to get some artwork for the archetypes. :)
That's why the Sheet is a work in progressI borrowed that section from the Twilight 2000 (4E) sheet. :) I'm looking at the GP versions of the Alien RPG and T2K 4E sheet as examples.

It shouldn't take long for me to get the sheet workable though. Anyone else is more than welcome to come up with their own too. :)

I still think the easiest approach would be one archetype per stat (so, four total) and one training package per skill (sixteen of those). By letting players mix and match, you can mechanically build any type of spy you can conceive.

Ok, advice taken. :) I'm looking at shifting things to the following Archetypes. I've narrowed it down to six. Please let me know your thoughts!

Are you keeping the training packages? (I assume so, but wanted to double check.)

Yes, Training packages are still in.

Just updated the document with some cleanups and actual tables for Weapons and Armor.

How are folks coming? Any thoughts on it from reading/character creation? Would love to get mission going in the next few days. :)

Would like to be the Brainiac if its ok with everyone...

I'm thinking about playing a sort of "sherpa" build centered around picking locks and disarming mechanical/electrical systems. I'm playing with the idea of "photographic memory" as a pride and "gun shy" as a weakness.

If that has too much overlap with your idea for brainiac I would be open to playing something different.

I have a few ideas... not sure if Gene is joining us, but I'll probably build a character who can handle the more physical side of the business.

I haven't seen anything from Gene yet either, but three are enough I think to keep going. :)

@Giardiatric - I can see that. Something like "My memory is like a steel trap." for the Pride, and "Using a gun is not an option for me." for the weakness.

I definitely look forward to seeing what you all come up with. :)

Just want to go on record as saying I am resisting the urge to create Michael Westin, from Burn Notice (which should really be in your TV Inspiration list).

Also, just a typo but p.7, under Skills, it says there are twelve skills in T&T. As you know, there are sixteen. Also, p.35 under Talents, your "Close Combat" header is normal font. Neither is a big deal, just the type of things that once I saw it I felt compelled to say something.

Looking over some of the equipment, the biker leathers and an actual vest being functionally the same doesn't seem right. The vest has ceramic or steel inserts. The +1 carrying capacity on the tac vest effectively just cancels out its own weight.

Also, a concealed vest, leather clothing, and kevlar clothes don't mesh IMO. There shouldn't be one that is flat-out a better choice, and as is the kevlar clothes are outright superior to the vest. Same armor rating, but clothes take no slot while vest takes half a slot? Why would anyone take the vest? Maybe drop kevlar clothes to Armor 1 instead, and scrap leather clothes? Or introduce a melee vs balistic rating? Not sure what the best fix would be, but we can has it out.
Point is, there should be trade off, either in weight, protection, or other benefits. We'll get it sorted.

As for building a character...

Ballerina (which sounds feminine, but whatever) with the Assassin package.

Ballerina - Body; Close Combat
Assassin - Coordination; Dexterity, Ranged Combat

Body = 5
Coordination = 4+1
Wits = 2
Empathy = 3

Agility = 1
Close Combat = 3*
Muscle = 1
Stamina = 2

Dexterity = 0*
Ranged Combat = 3*

Insight = 2

Talents
Archetype: Close Combat Specialist
Package: Weapon Specialist - Rifle, Sniper
Bonus: Merciless

That is a very good point on the armor. Maybe make the Leather into Heavy Clothing with Armor 0 and a choice of a "Cut Resist 2" or "Padded 2" which could be High quality leather for the Cut Resist and something like a bulky jacket, sweater, etc for the Padded vs impact damage?
Ok, so I just watched the trailer for the John WIck spinoff when I named it. :)

What about calling it a "Dancer" ? Although I did find out a male ballet dancer used to be called a "Ballerino" that might fit better. :)

(And, I have to say, I never watched one episode of Burn Notice...... Although I hear it was a good show )

Any thoughts on the Pride and Weakness?

Here is what I'm working with so far. Calm and Collected doesn't really fit with my chosen weakness, but I wasn't able to find the other two talents listed under my original archetype of locksmith.

Have you picked new talent lists for the reduced list of archetypes?

Archetype: Lightfinger
Training Package: Tech Specialist
Pride: My memory is like a steel trap
Weakness: Guns make me nervous

ATTRIBUTES
Body = 3
Coordination = 5
Wits = 5
Empathy = 3


SKILLs
Dexterity (Coord) 4 9d6
Thievery (Coord) 3 8d6
Stealth (Coord) 3 8d6
Stamina (Body) 1 4d6
Tech (Wits) 2 7d6
Observation (Wits) 2 7d6


Talents RANK
Electrician You get a +1 modifier to your Tech skill when dealing with Electronics or Electrical Systems.
Engineer You gain a +1 modifier to your Tech skill when dealing with Mechanical Systems.
Inquisitive You can push any skill roll based on Wits twice, not just once like other characters.
Calm and Collected By focusing on the task at hand, she may ignore up to 2 points of negative modifiers due to the environment

The thing about Ballerina/o, or Dancer (strictly my opinion) is that it sounds like it would fit a performer-type character. Athlete, maybe? Military? Conceptually, either would fit the fact that you can take Body or Coordination.

And while it's true dancers need a lot of both, I feel many average people might not realize that fact and assume it's just Coordination to make dancing look good. (Average people would likely picture club dancing, or maybe formal dancing, when they hear "dancer"... not a lot of muscle there.)

But I digress, I'm really just thinking out loud.

As for Pride and Weakness... I min-maxed the absolute hell out of my character, to try and carry the combat when it comes up. I'm thinking, "I may not be the best in the world, but if I can't kill the target that's who you need" for both.

I see Pride being a weakness in its own right, and having the same for both really drives home how mission-driven the character is.

How would you actually represent that in gameplay? I like the narrative reason for them being the same, but I find myself intuitively trying to break it down into two different attributes mechanically. Something like pride "I know I'll come out on top" weakness "The only thing I'm bad at is losing" still caputes that narrative essence, but outlines two discreet scenarios to keep the mechanical aspect more clear.

Regardless, I'm curious how you plan to RP the "if I can't kill the target that's who you need" part. I'm interpreting it as sore loser, but is it more anger management issues or depressive in the face of defeat.

For reference: Alright, so here's how I see it... your Pride provides a mechanical benefit -- an automatic success on a roll, so long as your Pride applies to the situation.

Your Weakness is mostly a narrative factor that, if you play to it, gives some bonus XP. (It also provides potential plot hooks for the GM.)

So, I have a target I have to neutralize. They're running, so I jump on top of a van and lay prone, line up my shot with my sniper rifle, and recite my Pride/Weakness as a sort of mantra before exhaling and squeezing the trigger. I get one automatic success, which means the weapon's base damage is applied. Thrn I look for additional successes to increase damage.

The Pride part is done.

But... let's say there were zero additional successes. The target's armor leaves them hurt and injured, but still alive. They jump into a waiting car and speed away before I can take a follow up shot. It's narrative at that point, playing to the Weakness. Not 100% sure how I want to RP it but I may be enraged and embarassed in the moment, which -- because anger is a heightened emotion and people don't actually sustain heightened emotional states for prolonged periods -- will taper off and lead into a mopey, dejected mindset where he beats himself up over his failure.

Additionally, the GM has someone with a grudge (the target that lived and escaped) and the potential for a rival spy to step in and gloat that they took down the target I couldn't. Two easy plothooks for the GM served up on a platter.

One phrase, satisfying both conditions. (Admittedly made considerably easier because one is mechanical and the other is narrative, but I digress.)

I have not adjusted the Talents, do they need it you think? Also, on the build, should be starting with 3. :) 1 from Archetype, 1 from Training, and one other, and it doesn’t have to be from either but can be if you like. :) nice build overall though. :)