Winter our discontent (OOC)

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Apr 14, 2025 8:42 am
I will set the scene with Sarah.
And no, Emma won't bring David along; it will be harder to snoop around with him there, plus he could potentially get in some sort of danger. She will need to come up with an excuse to why she will be gone for the entire weekend.
Apr 14, 2025 1:13 pm
vagueGM says:
Presumably Benji is staying, going back inside after saying goodbye [ref]? Then going to Jacob's?
Yup!
Apr 14, 2025 11:33 pm
vagueGM says:
Presumably Persephone is going to Wentworth, and then (maybe) to Zhiyu?
Exactly! I'll suggest as much IC.
Apr 17, 2025 5:09 am
I assume we can hand wave some of the primer on the supernatural, which will bring Persephone up to speed on the basics of the Urban Shadows world, circles, and so on. But I am interested to hear about her patron's attitudes toward these beings, especially other demons. Getting sucked into demon politics could be interesting, mostly because her patron might, at times, be the lesser of two evils! So she might feel compelled to do what she knows will strengthen her patron's hand, if only to stop something worse. Etc.
Apr 17, 2025 6:31 pm
Drgwen says:
... I assume we can hand wave some of the primer on the supernatural ...
Mostly yes, we only play the fun parts. However, Wentworth is not just going to give up his tools for free. You will need to convince him of your need.
Drgwen says:
... bring Persephone up to speed on the basics of the Urban Shadows world ...
In the beginning we may want to employ some mechanism for see what you got when you meet someone. We can look at folding that into the Put an X to an X (or other Circle Moves) rolls, or cast a retro-active check to see how much you got from Wentworth and shape the options from that, or try use (and trick) the hotline staff [ref] when the time comes. Depends on whether you think it might be fun to keep the 'new in town' vibe, but still have access to the Circle Moves.
Drgwen says:
... But I am interested to hear about her patron's attitudes toward these beings ...
How will you go about learning this intimate information? It should be relatively simple to get an 'enemies/friends' list, but most others exist on the spectrum from 'can be used' to 'can't be useful' (replace 'used/useful' with 'seduced' once you get a better feel for your Dark Patron:).
Drgwen says:
... especially other demons ...
In general? Or do you ask about Kat's situation directly? Your approach will change the directness of the answers.
Drgwen says:
... demon politics ... lesser of two evils! ... strengthen her patron's hand, if only to stop something worse. ...
Sounds fun. You can find that (specific?) other contracting demons are fair game, and you are encouraged to undermine their operations. Getting Kat out will be a gold star for you (or, maybe not 'gold'?:) if you can do it. They are 'the competition', which you will learn if you ask.
Apr 17, 2025 9:11 pm
vagueGM says:
Wentworth is not just going to give up his tools for free. You will need to convince him of your need.
Haha perfect. I don't expect to get anything for free from Wentworth and I absolutely do not trust him. Yet he is the logical place to start, I think.
vagueGM says:
or try use (and trick) the hotline staff [ref] when the time comes
I see him mention "the hotline" in the IC post, but... what? Is that something I am supposed to recognize?
vagueGM says:
Depends on whether you think it might be fun to keep the 'new in town' vibe, but still have access to the Circle Moves.
New in town is fun, but I also want to try some version of the circle moves, if only because it is such a central part of the game. (and it's fun and interesting)
vagueGM says:

It should be relatively simple to get an 'enemies/friends' list
This is the kind of thing I meant. I would like to know if I am expected to play nice with certain beings, or avoid them, or if I am simply expected to remain in the dark about that.
vagueGM says:
most others exist on the spectrum from 'can be used' to 'can't be useful' (replace 'used/useful' with 'seduced' once you get a better feel for your Dark Patron:).
This is an arc I would like to explore. I imagine my relationship with my Patron becoming much more nuanced eventually, where Pers learns to work with the Patron to accomplish things, in exchange for those things she can stomach doing. And then the question is whether she can pull of that balance and retain her humanity. Like, I don't think the demon is some crude "evil for its own sake" being, but a sophisticated form of selfishness clothed in sophistical justification, legalese, etc. Like... oh I don't know, folks on the exec board of a global multinational oil corporation or a law firm that mostly just defends billionaires. The kinds of self-serving justifications such folks must use to defend their actions is what I have in mind. I do think I mentioned from the beginning that I was imagining the Tainted as simply someone dealing with working for a grossly immoral corporation, complete with bureaucracy to obfuscate responsibility and all.
vagueGM says:


In general? Or do you ask about Kat's situation directly?
She wants both. What is the stance I should take when meeting other demonic agents in general and, as an example case, I met Kat. I'd offer to undermine the competition and free her. Remember as well, that Persephone came from the Silicon Valley venture capitalism world, so she understands how these kinds of things work, at least in the mortal world. This is why she was such a good target for demonic recruitment.
Apr 17, 2025 9:51 pm
Drgwen says:
... I see him mention "the hotline" in the IC post, but... what? Is that something I am supposed to recognize? ...
I have not heard of it before now. But he seems to think you should know about it. It is the sort of thing multi-leveled corporate institutions would have, so why not? They are just another layer of bureaucracy and control. But that is a tool you can work with. (Maybe you can coopt one of the workers and get them on your side?)
Drgwen says:
... New in town is fun, but I also want to try some version of the circle moves ...
I am offering a way to have both. Make a move to deal with the 'new to town' bit, then use that to dictate what options you have for the Puta move. If you do well on the newto (custom) Move, then Debts are a possibility, and they will be "you can remind them that they Owe us" and you are authorised to collect (or pay); else it might only be about information (with 'none' or 'special' as your only option). Or you may have to speak to the hotline (if you want to engage with that (we can make appropriate NPCs together as needed)) and rely on them. The Circle Move would still happen, this will just say how. What do you think?
Drgwen says:
... I would like to know if I am expected to play nice with certain beings, or avoid them, or if I am simply expected to remain in the dark about that. ...
Wentworth may prefer you remain in the dark and reliant on him. But he is subtle, so it won't be obvious. He can't exactly dump a database into your head, so, at the beginning, you may need to ask him (directly of via the hotline) for specifics.

The general trend, given the nature of your Dark Patron, is to be subtle about it, not cause overt conflicts if you can avoid them (seduce and manipulate, after all), but to try to get the upper hand in the long-run.
Drgwen says:
... learns to work with the Patron to accomplish things, in exchange for those things she can stomach doing. ...
Absolutely. 'Good little workers' get the perks and the cushy jobs, those who rock the boat get bilge-duty.
Drgwen says:
... And then the question is whether she can pull of that balance and retain her humanity. ...
That's the balance of the Playbook, and the game really: can you retire to safety before you succumb to corruption (or the City eats you up and spits you out).
Drgwen says:
... What is the stance I should take when meeting other demonic agents in general and, as an example case, I met Kat. ...
How you ask will dictate the nature of the answer. But others' agents are 'employees of a competing firm' and others' assets are there to be seized ... unless there is an alliance you were supposed to know about but were not told about...

We want you to be free to act against those who hold Kat, so they are free game. But they are not a Job, 'destroying your patron's enemies' is not what you do. Going above and beyond could get you 'promoted', though.
Drgwen says:
... I'd offer to undermine the competition and free her. ...
I don't know if Persephone would think of this, but letting them know you have your own reasons for doing the undermining might mean they don't see it as a favour to them... If they don't know that you want to save Kat, then your incidentally doing that as part of your disruption of the competition's plans comes off as 'doing it for them'... just a thought. (Maybe need some Mislead rolls, to pull of, of course.:)
Apr 17, 2025 10:07 pm
vagueGM says:
I have not heard of it before now.
Ha! I love this.
vagueGM says:
I am offering a way to have both. Make a move to deal with the 'new to town' bit, then use that to dictate what options you have for the Puta move. If you do well on the newto (custom) Move, then Debts are a possibility, and they will be "you can remind them that they Owe us" and you are authorised to collect (or pay); else it might only be about information (with 'none' or 'special' as your only option). Or you may have to speak to the hotline (if you want to engage with that (we can make appropriate NPCs together as needed)) and rely on them. The Circle Move would still happen, this will just say how. What do you think?
Love it! I'm looking forward to exploring the custom move(s). And thanks for going the extra mile to create those. I appreciate it!
vagueGM says:
But he is subtle, so it won't be obvious.
To be expected. I wanted a Patron like that, and I welcome it. I expect mind game s.
vagueGM says:
That's the balance of the Playbook, and the game really: can you retire to safety before you succumb to corruption (or the City eats you up and spits you out).
Agreed! That's why I went with it, and with the corporate slant on it.
vagueGM says:
How you ask will dictate the nature of the answer.
Also to be expected! That darned fine print always matters.
vagueGM says:
Going above and beyond could get you 'promoted', though.
Or in hot water. I love the ambiguity.
vagueGM says:
I don't know if Persephone would think of this, but letting them know you have your own reasons for doing the undermining might mean they don't see it as a favour to them... If they don't know that you want to save Kat, then your incidentally doing that as part of your disruption of the competition's plans comes off as 'doing it for them'... just a thought. (Maybe need some Mislead rolls, to pull of, of course.:)
I think Persephone would be at least aware of this strategy in passing, given that she had to work with all these venture capitalists that basically pitch themselves as the saviors of the startups, when in fact they are simply investing in something they think will make *them* a ton of money. Selfishness clothed as altruism is old hat for her.

OK I feel I understand the situation at least as well as I need to at the moment, so I will post! Thanks for the dialogue.

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