Winter our discontent (OOC)

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@Delirium: I don't think you have to roll Keep Your Cool to avoid blurting out something ... inappropriate [reason]. But it is up to you if you want to. :)

Ok bravo, vagueGM, for a truly jaw dropping twist!
And one with all kinds of fun implications as well.

More fun with friends around. :P

Given that I also just [ref] learned that Zhiyu works/lives rather close to to where Emma lives, maybe you actually know him? That way Debts can be in play as normal. We will need to massage the facts a bit if on a 10+, but no big deal.

We could still make it work with your lunch invitation [ref] if we want to.

You don't know him as 'Howard'. But it is very common for Chinese people in western counties to take on western/English names.
I prefer for rolls to be in the RP threads, for easier tracking, but this is one of the few Moves that does not have an in-fiction player Trigger (as well as being one of the few where 'nothing happens' is an option on a 6-), so no biggie.

You can know about the same as Benji does [ref], but you don't need to recognise him right away since you are not necessarily close with some random greengrocer from the local market if you don't want to be. :)

A twin brother. Yikes! Well, at least she doesn’t have to worry about angering her patron… but oof. Now she’s gonna feel extra bad. She was secretly relieved when she thought Howard was still alive.

Or he’s lying about that of course.

Is he a 'twin'? Could be, all I thought was that they look enough alike that someone who only met Howard once in a dimly-lit club would be fooled. But I have no 'plans' about that detail.
Reminder: This was a followup from the Debts conversation [ref]. It is up to you if still want to Owe Howard's 'ally' a Debt, we can work out the details of how that goes as we play.

You don't know what he knows. You are a new entity in London, so even connected people may not know you yet.
Good point. That could turn out to be the case. I never know.

Understood. I think the actual relationship between this person and "Howard" will determine if there is a debt. If he is actually a sibling, then Yes. Or maybe a close friend/colleague. But if they are just in the same organization or something, then no.

Also, is my latest post a move? Maybe Trick or Keep Your Cool ?

I am not sure about Mislead, Distract, and Trick, what is the lie you are trying to get him to believe? What is your objective? As the book (and the Notes on that Move's link) says "Mislead, distract, or trick is triggered whenever your character tries to gain the upper hand over another character..." Is that happening here? Do the picks make sense?

Keep Your Cool might be a better fit if you really care about him believing everything you are saying, but I am not sure I see what you are "trying to avoid". You have confirmed that you were there, saw Howard beginning to overdose (objection: hindsight) and left him to it. These are things Zhiyu suspected and came here to confirm.

He wants more answers, but may want to talk without an audience. If you suggest he should be speak openly, he will talk about the 'deal' from his perspective, but even if you want the others to hear about that (he will not reveal your part if he knows anything) your sister is here too.

Well, I saw her as telling at best a partial truth. Remember, she convinced Howard to OD. In her mind, she basically killed him. But the way she described it, she merely happened to be present and left at the sight of all the drugs, not just before (at least partially) causing his death. So that was the deception.

The Mislead option I was aiming for is "avoid further entanglement". But perhaps there are no moves needed here at all — that is why I framed the above as a question, after all.

I don't see any way for Zhiyu to extrapolate that you pushed his brother to OD from the current conversation. That can come later?
I don't think 'avoid further entanglements' is really an option? Not since I created the NPC specifically so you could become entangled, Owing him for your part. If you want to avoid those then he more-or-less 'goes away', which is fine, but you loose out on that Starting Debt?

Ok I am here for it. Let’s get entangled!

Gonna make your sister jealous? :)

Possibly! And definitely annoy Emma, which seems to be a recurring event... Sorry, Delirium! Hopefully the player is enjoying it even when the character is not.

yeah, Persephone doesn't realize it, but she desperately wants forgiveness or absolution from this man for her crime. Also, this is how her Debt is manifesting

Apologies that Persephone isn't being entirely forthcoming with Benji just yet, oopsylon! And did I forget anything that Persephone would have wanted to bring up?

Yeah, Pers is trying not to just be an open book; she just started sharing this fact about herself earlier today for the first time, to Emma. She’s still not even clear if it’s safe to tell a vampire that she’s a demon! What if they’re like mortal enemies? Clearly she needs to talk to Wentworth…

I’d like to have that occur ASAP as well. We don’t need to RP her constantly being shocked each time she meets a new supernatural being.

I apologize; I should have had her learn this stuff as a part of her backstory. I’m enjoying her learning process, though, so I hope it’s not too tedious for others.

ASAP as in before seeing Zhiyu? We can easily do that. Or before you and Emma (et al.?) look for possible loopholes (we are unlikely to find any real loophole or ways to break your contract till that is appropriate in the game, but we can find fake news).
For smoother use of the rules of the game, probably. But I think it is more fun this way (except where it fights the system).
I think it is great.

No worries at all! That’s completely okay with me

Yes, she would like to see Wentworth immediately after her time with Emma, Benji, and Bev. She plans to barge into his office and demand his immediate time. Then she will go see Zhiyu.

And yes, she plans to work on finding a loophole, but I know she won't find one any time soon. Or, if she does, it will be the kind of thing that takes a very long time to come to fruition.

And I am glad folks are enjoying it!

FYI, I have a surgery in a few hours that may prevent me from posting for a day or two. No worry, though-- the surgery is a happy thing--it's a gender affirming procedure.

Congratulations and good luck!

Exciting! Wishing you happy results, and a quick recovery (for selfish reasons ;P).

If you need to delay, let us know when you are back. Persephone can either find Circe by the door (or the lift or whatever) and come back immediately, or we can waste some time on that if need be.

Even if Emma does not notice, it still happened, and will come back later.

Also: Sierra Leone is 'West Africa', I knew that, but second-guessed myself while posting [ref] because of how far north it is. We can pretend Bev said 'West African'. :)

We will be happy with whatever you can give us, but focus on rest and recovery.

I'm back and ready to play. I've tapered off the heavy pain meds and am just mildly uncomfortable now.

That's great news. (How strange to be celebrating 'mildly uncomfortable':)

Go ahead and roll it, the result can shape her reply.

Whelp. Sigh.

lol I must say I kind of love the way the dice can inject trouble and failure like that into a narrative. I am looking forward to seeing how Persephone spectacularly fails at understanding her sister.

Sorry for the delay, been a busy few days.

That seems appropriate, though I am not sure if it qualifies for a roll, what (reasonable) counter-offer could she give on a 7-9†, and what does it actually cost you? Isn't this something you were going to do anyway (not that that sort of logic should factor into a promise of shopping as manipulation:).

We can bring in 'costs' during the shopping, you are supposed to be dealing with other stuff that will complicate your life if neglected.

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• † We don't want go with the obvious. That she wants to be included in what you are doing with your friends today, as that is a tad disruptive and revealing, right? Another, more playable counter-offer would be that she demands it be 'all about her', but Wentworth has work for you while you are at it?

Yes, Persephone likely would have taken her shopping anyway.

So, on a 7-9, perhaps Persephone takes her shopping even when Wentworth is demanding she do something else, resulting in conflict with the boss. Alternatively, Persephone has to take her shopping and won't get time for that debrief on there supernatural, which means Persephone will still be ignorant of things the next time she has a run in with the supernatural.

I'll admit I usually don't consider what I might offer on a 7-9 until I roll it! But I see now that your approach is superior --to have something in mind for each possible outcome before rolling, so that the roll is meaningful and effective.

The problem is if there are no sensible options then the roll is not valid. You can't roll if all the options are not viable, if you can't succeed, you can't roll, of you can't fail, don't roll, if nothing makes sense for a 7-9 then that Move is probably not the right one.
Well, it isn't 'my approach'. It is the rules of PbtA. You have to know (even if only roughly) what the outcomes mean and what to expect (in general terms), if you, the player, don't agree to every possible outcome, then you need to try something different and can't roll that move.
That just seems unfun, which is why I was shying away from that.
Ya. So we will factor that in to how much this mollifies her. Even on an 11.
She will still need you to sweeten the pot, and I am thinking the demand that it be all about her with that conflicting with Wentworth's work fits best, but, since you got an 11 [ref], Wentworth won't be all that pushy about when you need to ... what's your other job type? Oh, yeah, ... Broker a Contract. You can try to arrange that for after (but we will only know for sure when dice happen, and dice will only happen at that inflection point:).

Hmmm, I'm not so sure that's universally true. I have often played PbtA games wherein the roll occurs and the GM comes up with "a worse outcome, a hard bargain, or an ugly choice" (that's from Apocalypse World). Nowhere does it say those options must be established before the roll. Similarly, in Monsterhearts, the Keep Your Cool move says: "On a 7-9, the MC will tell you how your actions would leave you vulnerable, and you can choose to back down or go through with it." I have often played MH, and I've often had this choice only presented after the roll.

So I understand your point, but I am just not sure I agree that 'it's the rules of PbtA.'

Now, I *do* agree that all of the results need to be possible. Moves can only be made when there is a real chance of success or failure. And Yes, you are absolutely right, I can't offer something to an NPC as a part of a move like Persuade an NPC that I was gonna give them already. I must sweeten the pot; you are totally right about that. But... the negative consequences of the roll? I don't see why I have to know that in advance. There are any number of ways she could react negatively.

Oh, and I apologize if I am pushing back here--for one, I find this discussion super interesting from an abstract game design perspective (hi, game designer here), but two, because I am authentically curious if I have been misconstruing my PbtA mechanics!
This all sounds good to me! I will offer her like a full day of shopping, pampering, and treats--right when Wentworth wants me to do something.

No worries at all. Always happy to chat about game design. And my words were a little crude.
Only if it caused problems.
I may have been overstating it a bit. AW and MH are not as explicit as something like Blades in the Dark, for instance, which came later. This was always part of how Vincent runs games. Though I haven't played with Avery she does much the same from what I have seen, but remember that Montershearts is inherently more transgression and intends to put players in situations where their characters feel out of control.

Even MH, though, says (on page 92) about MC Reactions that they need to feel "like a natural response to what was just said or a natural consequence of what was just done." For this to work, everyone needs to be on the same page before they happen. Players should not be unpleasantly surprised by the MC Reaction... Surprise is good, but "I did not think that was going to happen" is mostly a bad thing, their reaction should more along the lines of: "Wellp, that was bound to happen when I tried that."

The more a group plays together the less this comes up.
Yes, that is part of the Keep Your Cool Move. On a 7-9 you get the choice to not keep your cool and allow the original bad to happen, or to take the bargain the GM offered and avoid the thing that made you roll. This is a standard Tell them the possible consequences and ask codified in the Move text.

I would expect the player to understand that their roll could, even on a 7-9, result in them being presented with a worse outcome than what they were trying to avoid, knowing this before they roll is part of the rules.
I did, deliberately, add in weasel words like 'in general terms' because you don't need to know what will happen, but you need to be cognisant of the sorts of things that could happen. The player should never be confused about the fact that their choice to roll could make the situation much worse. "GM: 'If you roll to Read a Person it will turn this peaceful conversation (even though you are having a disagreement) into a Charged Situation, because that is part of the Move's trigger. Are you sure you want to roll?' Player: 'No! I thought we were just talking here.'" This reminds the player about the mechanics of their roll and that nothing never happens.

As AW says on page 10:
"You don’t ask in order to give the player a chance to decline to roll, you ask in order to give the player a chance to revise her character’s action if she really didn’t mean to make the move".

I just wanted you to be aware of what a roll of Persuade could lead to, and that what you offered would not get you much of a return. Your choice to roll turned a situation where the worst that could happen was a sulky sister into a situation where the GM makes a Move, and that is a big deal. You chose to turn a sure thing into a gamble, for not much reward. :)

Gotcha!! I think I had overlooked those weasel words, and I was reading you as speaking more in absolutes. I actually agree with you here! Or, maybe more accurately, you’ve helped me to refine some vagueness I had in my thinking, if that makes sense. And I always appreciate that! I am a philosophy professor IRL, after all; so that’s kinda my jam.

And yes, invoking a move in a situation in which it isn’t necessary does invite drama. But I like that! I’m not here to see my character live happily ever after; that’s boring, unless it is earned by walking through chaos and ruin first. And yeah, sometimes I stir the pot a bit by making suboptimal decisions, just to see what happens. But I see your point here; it was a minor inconvenience and I responded with invoking a move, which is like using a baseball bat to swat a fly.

Ok! I’m happy to let things stand IC as they are but I’ll be more mindful of this stuff going forward. Or I’ll try to at least! Occasionally, I might want to make things more difficult for poor Persephone, just to see what happens! :)

Even our characters do that sometimes. :)

We don't need Moves and dice to 'just see what happens', we can do things that are bound to cause ripples and just have them happen. :)

haha that’s fair! Though sometimes it’s fun to see what the dice decide; I think of them like another player at the table, contributing to the story. But yeah, I can do just fine sowing chaos without them, too!

True, though PbtA Moves are often not the most suited for use as Oracles, there are plenty of random tables that can be brought in for that sort of thing. If the Move fits, though, using them can add extra uncertainty to a scene that would be predictable otherwise.

I am still thinking about running a game using nothing but Mythic GM Emulator as the ruleset. Not the GM emulator part, the resolution rules (Chaos Chart and Dice). It could be interesting, though I am not sure it divorces from the emulator part well enough, I need to give it more thought. I know I never found Mythic (the RPG) worth it.

hmm! I don’t know these. I think I have a deep dive to look forward to later today!

Incidentally, I just learned about FKR and am fascinated. I’m gathering you’re a fan as well?

Mythic GM Emulator is a tool for playing without a GM, either as a group or solo. I never used anything other then the Chaos Chart (and it may well be called the Fate Chart and Chaos Number, or something, it has been a while) from 1e, but I was very impressed with my single read-through of Second Edition (though, ironically, I think I preferred the Fate Chart from 1e?).

Mythic was a game by the same author, but I don't recall much about it.
I am not sure I advocate for real FKR, at least, not for 'games with strangers'. Kriegsspiel (or War Gaming) was a practice for soldiers, when they said "we all know what is realistic and what makes sense, we don't need written rules" that was true, they were professionals. I have seen rules-lite games fall apart way too often when opinions differ as to what is 'reasonable' in a situation and it devolves to bickering and players vs GM.

With people who all agree about how things work, or are willing to sit down and lay down ground rules, FKR is the ultimate RP, but, outside that, it is rather unpredictable.

I just want the rules to get out of the way and let me play... But I also want the rules to stop the other peoples from having opinions different to mine! A rulebook helps to get everyone on the same page.

Agreed.

Agreed as well!

Agreed.

Where to next? There was talk of Hitting the Streets for information to help Persephone. Is that our next scene? Who all's going along? We can assume Circe wants to be part of what's happening, but can be persuaded (off screen) to rest her hurting body.

• If that is what we are doing: Who do you go to (first).
  • Set the scene.

Remember that Hit the Streets Marks Circles for Advancement, so think about who does which Circle and in what order.
We can talk about strategies. Unfortunately this is part of the game, so don't feel bad about this metagaming. (If we can arrange it such that Benji hits Mortalis first (with any Move that counts) we are mostly clear to do any order. Both Emma and Persephone (as is not unusual) already have their strong Circle Marked, though Emma is pretty flat (in this regard:) and Persephone still needs to Mark Wild on her sheet).

Yes. Anyone who rolled for Zhiyu should do Mark Power.

(If Benji had gone with the initial plan of Hitting the Streets to find Teddy a snack he could have Marked Mortalis, Advanced, and then Marked Night (again) for fulfilling the Debt (order can matter and this interpretation is valid:) and now Power and been halfway to another Advance. I don't mind the metagaming (it is required by the rules) but do sometimes find the need to go to a certain Circle before any more advancement progress can be made a little frustrating. I was hoping they would smooth this aspect out between 1 and 2, it sometimes feels more like a gating mechanism than an advancement mechanism.)

Second Advancement! :) You are getting Corrupt too!
If we are splitting up, then sure. If we want to stay together for a bit and then do separate scenes in the afternoon, that may run smoother than trying to end our separate scene at the same time. It is up to the group.

Same point as above, once we split up it can be hard to get back together, this is true in 'real life' for the characters, but even more true in PbP where pacing makes it real hard to end scenes simultaneously.

The indication [ref] was that we hit up Wentworth after you and Emma (and possibly Benji (and Bev?)) look for loopholes [ref].

If we want to split up first, then we can do that. Else we can try spend a few hours doing research and then speak to Sarah and Wentworth (and then Zhiyu) separately?
We should try to shape it such that everyone gets a day of (mostly) downtime 'tomorrow' (that was the promise, not 'in the next day or two':), or at least avoid too much time slippage while such commitments are underway. But this is not a big deal if it does not work out.
I actually never intended for us to do the weekend at the beach-house, since it is (presumably) outside the area the game covers (and Urban Shadows does not like us wandering away:). This is not a problem, if we decide to take them up on their offer, something —the weather most likely— will move their meeting somewhere more appropriate.

We can see if Persephone can wangle an invite, but a more likely scenario might see her as a 'fast reaction force', ready to swoop in and save the day. What say we all?

For real? If you want him mixed in this we can swing an invite, sure.

Um... Have you met Emma? :)
Fair. What about if Emma learned there was a chance she might need backup and planned for it? Surely she knows this is not just a social thing? She can have Persephone on speed dial for in case. Or, we can have Persephone learn about danger there, and try contact Emma with a warning. Either way we can have the tackle the problem from two directions.

We can leave this till when it happens. What you learn in the meantime may shape what plans you make. All we need know is that there is risk there, but we know that, we know they are up to no good.
We can wait till the scene happens and then see what Emma does, based on what she learns. We can easily say she arranged for David to tag along —maybe without Henry's knowledge? You can decide closer to the time if you still want to bring him or need to persuade him to stay away.

It might depend on how you want David to learn about the supernatural.

That could happen. We could always find something she needs to do, so you both need to tackle the issue from two fronts.
We can easily do that, even if she is not invited to your actual event.
Persephone has no way out of her arrangement, she can not act against her Dark Patron (not without impunity, at least), so we agreed it would be better if these guys —who are a problem Emma is dealing with, and not an asset for her— be arrayed against Persephone so she can act against them rather than for/with them. We need Emma to be able to work with Persephone.

It is simple to have Wentworth order Persephone to 'go there and hinder their activities'. That gives her a reason to be there if we don't already have one. Maybe Emma mentions the retreat so Persephone can mention it to Wentworth in passing?
Emma might believe she is can handle it. 'It will be fine.' And take the risk of bringing him. Others might believe it is a bigger risk and decide to be 'there' as well, maybe in a neighbouring chalet?
Sounds like a plan. Do you, maybe, have the conversation before you go, or at the weekend retreat when you realise things will get hairy? The evidence and proof can happen there either way. You can decide closer to the time.
Possibly. I am not sure Chablis is a reliable source of that proof, we can come back to it if the weekend does not give you what you need?

Yes, which also means it is one of the Moves that counts towards your Advancement. So think about which Circle you need to Mark when deciding who to go to. As the book says:
But, remember that they need to be willing to provide you the help. The Move does not deal with getting them to do it, just with whether they are available, existing relationships or negotiation are often required to actually get something from them, and this needs to be feasible (though it does not need to be a sure thing) before the Move can be rolled.
Well, anyone who can interact with the Moves is from a Circle. And you can reuse existing NPCs if anyone makes sense. The other players made a number of NPCs, but we never really saw most of them in play before those player characters left the story, we can let those NPCs fade into the background so as to avoid cluttering up the roster.
The Scholar as in the Playbook? Playbooks are for PCs, don't worry about them for NPCs, NPCs don't have Playbooks and are not special like PCs are, they are also much more freeform and versatile. Feel free to use the Playbooks for inspiration, of course, and to see what sorts fall into what Circle. You can always make something similar to a Playbook.
Sounds great.

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• Does Persephone know of Yasmine? Or do you need someone to send you there?

If we want, we can try strategize and get the most out of our spree.

If Benji is with you, there are (multiple) reasons he might know about Yasmine and her shop. But one of his contacts (maybe a scholar from Mortails) might fill in the gaps that she is particularly well suited to answer the sorts of questions you have. That way he can Mark off Mortalis and Power and join the group and benefit as well.
• @oopsylon: Is Benji going with the ladies on this quest?

• Only one person rolls Hit the Streets, but everyone else might be able to roll Put a Face to a Name the first time. Others could Hit the Streets with that NPC for something else while you are there, but it can get incongruous and messy, so I might not recommend it.

It can never be perfect, and Emma already has Mortalis and Power, but that puts you all on the a similar level and we can then try coordinate, but it can get out of hand too. The story comes first, but the ordering of the story can be guided by the need for Circle Marks.

@Drgwen: Don't forget to record your Marked Circles on your sheet so we can all see which you have and which you need and plan accordingly. You should have, at least, Wild Marked from the Job you did on Howard Winters.

Sure, Benji will come along! Jacob’s shop is in Cecil Court too, right? So it stands to reason that Benji would know of Yasmine or at least would have seen her shop in passing. Maybe Benji could be the one who recommends they pay Yasmine a visit?

Indeed. The 'demon knowledgeable' occultist who runs a bookshop in the same street as your demon friend's bookshop... Yeah, you will know of her. :)

Do you know her through Jacob? Or do you want to use the advice above to maximise your Advancement? Up to you. Either way it seems like you should roll Put a Name to a Face (when we get there) to work out the nature of your relationship which will factor into how willing she is to help.

I’m not too fussed about optimising advancement. I think it makes the most sense for Benji to know Yasmine through Jacob

Cool. Just reminding the players, as I have seen players get salty when they keep missing opportunities.
We can jump to the shop. Someone can describe what it is like. Maybe Benji suggested Yasmine as a source, or maybe someone else knew her as well.

Benji and Emma can roll Put a Face to a Name which might suggest who comes up with the idea to go there? Persephone can roll too, if we think Yasmine might be someone mentioned to her as 'problem', though I don't see Debts being involved there.

Presumably Persephone is the one rolling Hit the Streets? But we can mix it up based on who makes the most sense in the fiction.

There are additional playbooks that are not part of the core book. Many of them change the rules in ways that don't always work in regular games, and I think there was advice in 1e to not include more than one at a time unless you really know what you are doing.
The Scholar may be a fit for Emma and does not change the world in ways that are a problem. It may put you at odds with Amira and her clan, unless you can work out how to live in harmony with them.
They were called 'Limited Edition Playbooks' in 1e, but I don't know what they are calling them in 2e.

We can talk about each of the 'extra' playbooks that you are interested in, see how they fit and if we need to make preemptive changes to the world to bring them in.
Uh, yeah... you have a name, now you can put a face to it. But it may not really benefit you much to roll here if you don't know them.

Also, why can't you know Yasmine, she is a book seller in your neighborhood. Maybe you did not know she was in the know... but if you have met her you might have a pretty good idea, so she may be who you were thinking of suggesting when you proposed this plan.
You can only 'Put an x to an x' the first time you encounter an NPC, you can not save it for later. It is to establish what you already knew.
You could do, and should do if that is what makes the most sense in the fiction... but you won't benefit from rolling that and that will rob Persephone of Marking Power. Emma might know the Power Circle a bit better than Persephone does, but Persephone actually knows what going on, it is her questions. Who rolls will change the fiction and change what is asked for in return.

You don't have to pull everything from your contact list. This is quite feasibly someone you actually know, they are in the book business, and you write books (even if they are the wrong sort), you may have canvased all the book dealers in the area, or anything... or not, your call.
Might be. Aren't they are mainly Mind playbook? (I played one once, but have not actually looked at the 2e versions of any of these:).

Emma may need to find ways to fortify her Mind Stat a bit. :)
As I say, I have not looked at the Playbooks not in the core rulebook, not past the description on the Kickstarter pages, so I am not sure which ones you are alluding to. Some of them have already lived a long time, which does not match 'becoming one', but if you want to try to becomes an immortal or a deity that is fine to talk about.
The more you learn about any of them the more you realise why most people are people and don't take the deals. :)
I wonder if Emma will notice that, and that just because she has only learned about the downsides of vampires does not mean the others she know less about are not also similarly encumbered. :)

I don't know about living forever, it does not define anything about this, but Werewolf seems an interesting option for Emma?

She can maybe even end up as a Fae. Vamp/Werewolf/Fae all have ways to turn without planning on it, so let us know if the story forces this on Emma, we won't force it on the player, of course. Death could lead to one coming back as a Revenant, as well... depending on how the story goes. (I had good fun with a Revenant once.)

And rolled really well. No Debts since you have not met, but what special secret do your notes contain? Think about it and maybe bring it up when appropriate to help sway the meeting towards helping you.
A deity? I believe so. We can look closer at the Playbooks, but as I say, I believe they are a small gods, the forgotten type. The Ancient, for instance. There is also the Angel, and the Immortal, but, as I said, they are all sorta themed as 'have always been this' rather than 'can become this', but we can make it work if that is the route we decide on.
That contrariness was the main reason I thought of it. :)
That Advancement option is also only open to you way down the line, you need to first take 5 other Advancements, and you have none.

If the story forces such a change on you, then we don't care about the Advancement options, if you turn into a vampire you are a vampire, not a choice that needs an Advancement.

Oh, right. Well, someone of that sort, then, I suppose!
Perhaps Persephone realizes she got the infernal vibe after wandering into her bookshop one day, simply based on the on-the-nose shop name? And, looking closer, she realizes that there were a bunch of books about demons? So later, Persephone would propose her shop as a place to go to read up on the subject, Benji would know of her.
OK, I think I have 2 Status boxes marked with Wild now (one from character creation).

RE: the Scholar, they released a 2e Scholar playbook as a Stretch goal for the 2E Kickstarter. I got it when I backed.

We are talking about Advancement [rules], which is binary, either you have it marked or you don't. You Mark Wild when you complete a Job [ref], if you already have it Marked that does nothing (many playbooks have 'easy' ways to Mark their own Circle).

Advancement is the column to the right of Status, called 'Adv?', it will turn purpleish when you Mark it.

Circle Status is a big deal, Wentworth is Status 2, it will take a lot of work for you to increase your Status. See the summary [rules] or page 41 for more details.

The only way for most playbooks to reach Status-2 in any Circle (and presumably only their own for most?) is through the advanced Advancement Obtain Circle Status-2, see page 187 for details.

I thought she was Power? [ref]
Unless it was a very steep discount, like life-changing or something, that might not count for a Debt. You might need to show us more when we interact with her to get a feel for it.
The does not matter (aside from looking messy and making searching hard:), we only really care about the dice numbers and can adjust the +modifies on the fly.

Gotcha. I was mixing up marking status with marking advancement. I couldn’t recall what Urban Shadows called things.

No kidding. It is quite deviant.

Okay, no worries! It’s a -1 modifier then but the same result
Okay, never mind about that then! I’lll come up with something else

Maybe Yasmine was the one who originally put Benji in contact with Jacob around covid times when Benji needed money and Jacob needed someone to do a few odd jobs for him?

Sounds good. I was wondering if Yasmine knew Jacob, and if she had a 'friendly' relationship with him (and other demons). It would make sense for them to 'work together'.

Yasmine could also have given you hefty discounts on books if you want. That will suggest something about your relationship (or her motives:).

Sure! I’m happy with that

Are you hoping she believes you? Or are you being pretty obvious with that 'asking for a friend' fib which nobody ever believes. :)

Do you need to roll Mislead?

No, it should be obvious that she's definitely NOT asking for a friend. The, oh and hypothetically speaking, which is another weaselly qualifier that is not usually taken at face value, magnifies the obviousness, I think. And there awkwardness, with the several vocal pause words like um, and ah in there.

I’ll wait for the convo between Emma and Yasmine to resolve before I reply.

Agreed.
Sounds good... erm... you know what I mean.
Cool. We definitely won't be answering the question of who is 'right', leaving open all the options.
Agreed. We know the facts we know, the Playbooks define as much as they define, and the players get to define the rest, or leave it undefined.
Sure. Urban Shadows Playbooks don't actually make a lot of sense for changing between them, a mortal becoming a werewolf, or a ghost, or a vampire, or a mage, all make a certain amount of sense, but many of the Playbooks are special versions of the concept, and carry baggage and imply time as that Playbook.

We will make any choices work. We may have to massage the options and not everything makes sense. We will loosely interpret the rules for changing playbooks and keep the bits of each playbook that make the most sense in each case. This is not a thing that happens often, so it is not all that well tested. In truth, I don't think I have ever seen it happen in a game, outside of where a player planned from the start to become something later and worked towards it (making the story work) (which I have seen planned quite a few times, but only seen get pulled off, like, once, I think). The main way people change playbooks has been through the story 'forcing' it on them, and then we play it by ear, using what makes sense based on the story. Don't let that deter you plans, though. :)

Presumably Benji is staying, going back inside after saying goodbye [ref]? Then going to Jacob's?

Presumably Persephone is going to Wentworth, and then (maybe) to Zhiyu?

Is Emma meeting up with Kat, or just making phone calls to agree to the weekend (we can work out what day it is now when we need to to). We can have a scene if you want, or a string of small scenes with Kat and Henry or Sin, and David, as well as Sarah, or anything else. Up to you.

You each can set your scenes, as you like.

We can assume that happens. Do we want to see it? Henry will tell you, at some point, that the venue changed to somewhere closer, but still swanky.
She has never been to one, this is her first. They don't consider her important enough to tell her any details.
Maybe set that scene for us?
You bringing him along? Feel free to play with any tension the old plans for the seaside might bring and how the later change of venue changes that. Being closer may allow David to join you, he is not invited, but there is not a whole lot they can do when he shows up. :)

Yup!

Exactly! I'll suggest as much IC.

I assume we can hand wave some of the primer on the supernatural, which will bring Persephone up to speed on the basics of the Urban Shadows world, circles, and so on. But I am interested to hear about her patron's attitudes toward these beings, especially other demons. Getting sucked into demon politics could be interesting, mostly because her patron might, at times, be the lesser of two evils! So she might feel compelled to do what she knows will strengthen her patron's hand, if only to stop something worse. Etc.

Mostly yes, we only play the fun parts. However, Wentworth is not just going to give up his tools for free. You will need to convince him of your need.
In the beginning we may want to employ some mechanism for see what you got when you meet someone. We can look at folding that into the Put an X to an X (or other Circle Moves) rolls, or cast a retro-active check to see how much you got from Wentworth and shape the options from that, or try use (and trick) the hotline staff [ref] when the time comes. Depends on whether you think it might be fun to keep the 'new in town' vibe, but still have access to the Circle Moves.
How will you go about learning this intimate information? It should be relatively simple to get an 'enemies/friends' list, but most others exist on the spectrum from 'can be used' to 'can't be useful' (replace 'used/useful' with 'seduced' once you get a better feel for your Dark Patron:).
In general? Or do you ask about Kat's situation directly? Your approach will change the directness of the answers.
Sounds fun. You can find that (specific?) other contracting demons are fair game, and you are encouraged to undermine their operations. Getting Kat out will be a gold star for you (or, maybe not 'gold'?:) if you can do it. They are 'the competition', which you will learn if you ask.

Haha perfect. I don't expect to get anything for free from Wentworth and I absolutely do not trust him. Yet he is the logical place to start, I think.
I see him mention "the hotline" in the IC post, but... what? Is that something I am supposed to recognize?
New in town is fun, but I also want to try some version of the circle moves, if only because it is such a central part of the game. (and it's fun and interesting)
This is the kind of thing I meant. I would like to know if I am expected to play nice with certain beings, or avoid them, or if I am simply expected to remain in the dark about that.
This is an arc I would like to explore. I imagine my relationship with my Patron becoming much more nuanced eventually, where Pers learns to work with the Patron to accomplish things, in exchange for those things she can stomach doing. And then the question is whether she can pull of that balance and retain her humanity. Like, I don't think the demon is some crude "evil for its own sake" being, but a sophisticated form of selfishness clothed in sophistical justification, legalese, etc. Like... oh I don't know, folks on the exec board of a global multinational oil corporation or a law firm that mostly just defends billionaires. The kinds of self-serving justifications such folks must use to defend their actions is what I have in mind. I do think I mentioned from the beginning that I was imagining the Tainted as simply someone dealing with working for a grossly immoral corporation, complete with bureaucracy to obfuscate responsibility and all.
She wants both. What is the stance I should take when meeting other demonic agents in general and, as an example case, I met Kat. I'd offer to undermine the competition and free her. Remember as well, that Persephone came from the Silicon Valley venture capitalism world, so she understands how these kinds of things work, at least in the mortal world. This is why she was such a good target for demonic recruitment.

I have not heard of it before now. But he seems to think you should know about it. It is the sort of thing multi-leveled corporate institutions would have, so why not? They are just another layer of bureaucracy and control. But that is a tool you can work with. (Maybe you can coopt one of the workers and get them on your side?)
I am offering a way to have both. Make a move to deal with the 'new to town' bit, then use that to dictate what options you have for the Puta move. If you do well on the newto (custom) Move, then Debts are a possibility, and they will be "you can remind them that they Owe us" and you are authorised to collect (or pay); else it might only be about information (with 'none' or 'special' as your only option). Or you may have to speak to the hotline (if you want to engage with that (we can make appropriate NPCs together as needed)) and rely on them. The Circle Move would still happen, this will just say how. What do you think?
Wentworth may prefer you remain in the dark and reliant on him. But he is subtle, so it won't be obvious. He can't exactly dump a database into your head, so, at the beginning, you may need to ask him (directly of via the hotline) for specifics.

The general trend, given the nature of your Dark Patron, is to be subtle about it, not cause overt conflicts if you can avoid them (seduce and manipulate, after all), but to try to get the upper hand in the long-run.
Absolutely. 'Good little workers' get the perks and the cushy jobs, those who rock the boat get bilge-duty.
That's the balance of the Playbook, and the game really: can you retire to safety before you succumb to corruption (or the City eats you up and spits you out).
How you ask will dictate the nature of the answer. But others' agents are 'employees of a competing firm' and others' assets are there to be seized ... unless there is an alliance you were supposed to know about but were not told about...

We want you to be free to act against those who hold Kat, so they are free game. But they are not a Job, 'destroying your patron's enemies' is not what you do. Going above and beyond could get you 'promoted', though.
I don't know if Persephone would think of this, but letting them know you have your own reasons for doing the undermining might mean they don't see it as a favour to them... If they don't know that you want to save Kat, then your incidentally doing that as part of your disruption of the competition's plans comes off as 'doing it for them'... just a thought. (Maybe need some Mislead rolls, to pull of, of course.:)

Ha! I love this.
Love it! I'm looking forward to exploring the custom move(s). And thanks for going the extra mile to create those. I appreciate it!
To be expected. I wanted a Patron like that, and I welcome it. I expect mind game s.Agreed! That's why I went with it, and with the corporate slant on it.
Also to be expected! That darned fine print always matters.
Or in hot water. I love the ambiguity.
I think Persephone would be at least aware of this strategy in passing, given that she had to work with all these venture capitalists that basically pitch themselves as the saviors of the startups, when in fact they are simply investing in something they think will make *them* a ton of money. Selfishness clothed as altruism is old hat for her.

OK I feel I understand the situation at least as well as I need to at the moment, so I will post! Thanks for the dialogue.