Dec 24, 2018 8:28 pm
To Jabes, hoping for his healthy return. Merry Christmas to all!
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Dec 31, 2018 3:41 pm
This one begs the question again:
If someone has 2 Attacks, can he use them to attempt 2 Shove Actions?
With the Bull, I'm generally willing to let it happen if CB wants to burn Actions that way. That's what bulls do: they go around butting and shoving other animals and people. I think it's a reasonable moment to carve out a specialized interpretation that isn't game breaking and in our case with a bull on the team it's kind of fun.
But...for an all-time interpretation for all situations for all characters?
I find myself reluctant to make the change.
The Extra Attack capability gained by Martial Classes is linked to the Attack action specifically.
It does NOT say you just get more options for multiple Action.
We do allow 2 Grapples, but I think that is explicitly stated as the correct viewpoint. And even if it isn't, I can point to the fact that a Grapple is "a special type of Attack." The same with our Slam HR - another "special type of Attack" and you already have someone in a successful Grapple.
I'm on the fence on this, but leaning towards keeping it that a Shove is a full Action and not simply a single burn on Attacks.
(with the exception of a bull - because I just think it works and I like it that way).
Opening the debate club here and now if anyone wants to get involved and try to sway me one way or another.
J-Legal
If someone has 2 Attacks, can he use them to attempt 2 Shove Actions?
With the Bull, I'm generally willing to let it happen if CB wants to burn Actions that way. That's what bulls do: they go around butting and shoving other animals and people. I think it's a reasonable moment to carve out a specialized interpretation that isn't game breaking and in our case with a bull on the team it's kind of fun.
But...for an all-time interpretation for all situations for all characters?
I find myself reluctant to make the change.
The Extra Attack capability gained by Martial Classes is linked to the Attack action specifically.
It does NOT say you just get more options for multiple Action.
We do allow 2 Grapples, but I think that is explicitly stated as the correct viewpoint. And even if it isn't, I can point to the fact that a Grapple is "a special type of Attack." The same with our Slam HR - another "special type of Attack" and you already have someone in a successful Grapple.
I'm on the fence on this, but leaning towards keeping it that a Shove is a full Action and not simply a single burn on Attacks.
(with the exception of a bull - because I just think it works and I like it that way).
Opening the debate club here and now if anyone wants to get involved and try to sway me one way or another.
J-Legal
Jan 1, 2019 1:39 am
If it seems game breaking I'll speak up on it. But, you already know that J. I'm a straight lawyertician sometimes.
Jan 2, 2019 1:37 pm
Ezeriah says:
If it seems game breaking I'll speak up on it. But, you already know that J. I'm a straight lawyertician sometimes.So do you think EVERYONE should be able to use Shoves as Attacks? Extra Attack can mean "Extra Shove"?
In this case, should Namtur have another shot at doing a Shove or even throwing in a classic Attack as his 2nd of 2 series?
Anyone else can weigh in on this if you want.
Jan 2, 2019 2:19 pm
At a cursory glance, I think attacks should be exchanged for a push on a 1 for 1 basis.
(1) If someone wants to spend their turn shoving instead if trying to damage, why not. A tactical choice in exchange for potential damage output.
(2) It goes hand in hand with warrior action economy. These guys are the combat experts and should be able to take advantage of their increased potential for action in combat.
(1) If someone wants to spend their turn shoving instead if trying to damage, why not. A tactical choice in exchange for potential damage output.
(2) It goes hand in hand with warrior action economy. These guys are the combat experts and should be able to take advantage of their increased potential for action in combat.
Jan 2, 2019 3:46 pm
Ezeriah says:
At a cursory glance, I think attacks should be exchanged for a push on a 1 for 1 basis. (1) If someone wants to spend their turn shoving instead if trying to damage, why not. A tactical choice in exchange for potential damage output.
(2) It goes hand in hand with warrior action economy. These guys are the combat experts and should be able to take advantage of their increased potential for action in combat.
If Martial Classes are willing to spend the resource, let them have this specialized combat as an option for the spend as well.
Last chance for anyone else to object then. Otherwise, I'm going to go forward with that as a universal interpretation.
With that in mind, I eventually need to get back to Namtur and let him burn another Attack, which may or may not be Shove.
Jan 2, 2019 5:21 pm
At the time, I was on mobile so it was tough to dig up the details. But here they are:Pretty clear as written that shove just replaces a melee weapon attack with a different effect and you can do multiple shoves if you have multiple attacks (per Attack action).
As far as whether or not that is how it should be, I agree with Ez's excellent analysis.
[ +- ] Shove
Shoving a Creature
Using the Attack action, you can make a special melee attack to shove a creature, either to knock it prone or push it away from you. If you're able to make multiple attacks with the Attack action, this attack replaces one of them.
The target must be no more than one size larger than you and must be within your reach. Instead of making an attack roll, you make a Strength (Athletics) check contested by the target's Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check (the target chooses the ability to use). You succeed automatically if the target is incapacitated. If you succeed, you either knock the target prone or push it 5 feet away from you.
Using the Attack action, you can make a special melee attack to shove a creature, either to knock it prone or push it away from you. If you're able to make multiple attacks with the Attack action, this attack replaces one of them.
The target must be no more than one size larger than you and must be within your reach. Instead of making an attack roll, you make a Strength (Athletics) check contested by the target's Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check (the target chooses the ability to use). You succeed automatically if the target is incapacitated. If you succeed, you either knock the target prone or push it 5 feet away from you.
As far as whether or not that is how it should be, I agree with Ez's excellent analysis.
Jan 5, 2019 2:47 am
Haha, you're pin needle accurate with these PC's meeting the Big Bads. Which now means you're now obligated to do it for the others as well; I mean why should Maeriks and Trece be spoiled. I'm looking forward to the gif you find for Jabes meets Players' Club.
Jan 5, 2019 8:15 pm
Yeah when Jabes walks back into the Players' Club, we have to load up Admin with all sorts of gifs, spin intro music, hot bitches everywhere, pop champagne - do it right.
HEAR THAT, JABES.
HEAR THAT, JABES.
Jan 9, 2019 2:32 pm
Hey, guys. I apologize again for my long absence.
The good news is it's not a tumor. But I've lived with migraines for 3 decades and that was the worst episode ever. And then there was the depression, which I also have a long history of. The past 2 months have been rough. But I think O see the end of the tunnel - this tunnel, at least.
TL;DR It's been a RL clusterfuck but I'm back, bitches! Now if I can just catch up with you overactive writers!
The good news is it's not a tumor. But I've lived with migraines for 3 decades and that was the worst episode ever. And then there was the depression, which I also have a long history of. The past 2 months have been rough. But I think O see the end of the tunnel - this tunnel, at least.
TL;DR It's been a RL clusterfuck but I'm back, bitches! Now if I can just catch up with you overactive writers!
Jan 9, 2019 4:21 pm
Jabes, *so* good to have you back and really great to hear you're doing better. Finish clawing your way out of that tunnel!
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